The toughest Yes song to play...



The toughest Yes song to play...

Postby psychopomp95 » Thu Jul 25, 2002 7:38 am

for each instrument... what would your opinions be, all you musicians out there? <img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
For guitar, I'd have to say "Soundchaser" simply cuz I can't hear what Steve is doing for most of the song! He's buried in the mix. But it's tricky in any case, of course!
For bass, I'd say "Tempus Fugit"... extremely fast, and it takes a lot of stamina to play through the whole song (never mind that Chris is singing at the same time)! And actually, some of the runs on "Machine Messiah" are just as tough, if not tougher in spots.
And although I don't play keyboards, Rick's intro to "Awaken" and Patrick's intro to "Soundchaser" (that song again!) sound VERY difficult by any standard!
Of course, a large amount of Yes stuff is quite difficult... I'm sure we'll have a varied list here!
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Postby Astral traveller » Thu Jul 25, 2002 6:03 pm

the stuff Alan played is not that difficult, really (exception of the Relayer album, he's at his best on that one)
the YesWest and what came after is quit easy to play.

I guess for drums it's Gates of Delirium (the original or Yesshows version) from Alan.

Bruford: Heart of the sunrise, CTTE, LDR (for this songs especially where to hit the snare).
for the rest, a little practice would do it.
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Postby halman » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:54 pm

As a keyboard man I'd disagree about the beginning of 'Soundchaser' - 'Awaken' is a different matter though - the whole thing is hard and it's got the variety of Slow stuff, fast stuff, big stuff and intimate stuff. The solo from CTTE would get my vote as possibly the hardest along with OTSWOF and Madrigal - both of which are really 'buzy'.
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Postby IngnoZac » Fri Jul 26, 2002 12:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote><b>Astral traveller wrote:</b>
Bruford: LDR (for this songs especially where to hit the snare).<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You know, I'm not a drummer, but since Bruf was on the cover, I bought the magazine. The song is all in 4/4 but Bruf again wants to innovate: he play's on 5/4. With the snare drum coming on the first beat. It should be like this.

Band: ,...,...,...,...,...
Bill: ,....,....,....,....

Use the comma for the first beat of the whole ____ (what's the word??). So, the first one is together, the second one is one beat after, the third one two beats after, the forth is three beats after, and there's no fifth, because the 'empty' four beats of the 5/4 are exactly over the four beats of the 4/4. hard to explain when you don't have graphic resources.

Anyway, here's my list:

Vocal: ??? Almost everything because of Jon's range. I'd say Gates just as an example.
Guitar: Clap
Bass: anything off Relayer.
Keys: Cans and Brahms (which keys player has six hands???). <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Naw, probably, that's To Be Over (because of the emotions involved, not because of skill).
Drums: South Side (naw, it's not because Alan is playing after 30 years in the band, I always thought about this).

So, the count is:
TYA: 1 vote
Fragile: 1 vote
Relayer: 3 votes.

Renato

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Postby IngnoZac » Fri Jul 26, 2002 12:42 pm

Ooops.. that should be:

<font face='Courier New'>
Band: ,...,...,...,...,...
Bill: ,....,....,....,....
</font id='Courier New'>

Now I've got it.

Renato

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Postby Dr_Yes » Sat Jul 27, 2002 12:05 am

Arrrgghh!

Sorry psycho, I'm not meaning to have a go or anything, but it's just that I hate this type of topic. It reminds of a spoof done on the rock world in the UK in the 1980s in which the lead guitarist is asked how good he is, to which he replies along the lines of:

'Well I could play Stairway to Heaven by the time I was 12 and Jimmy Page didn't even write it until he was 22......I think that says something'.

Sorry again.
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Postby RanCan2112 » Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:13 am

Gates on the guitar actually isn't as hard as you might think..there are a couple of runs that are really tough, and the battle section can be pretty tricky to hold together with the band, but I've had more problems with something like Yours Is No Disgrace.

What about "The Ancient"?? It's very chaotic for all instruments in the beginning. I can imagine that being very very tough to pull off.
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Postby IngnoZac » Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:46 am

yeah, to compose something is 100oooo...ooo00x harder than playing the same thing.

Matt: I agree on Ancient. It sounds really difficult not to play, but to keep things going. Maybe it's time to try to play it? <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby RanCan2112 » Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:56 am

oh man..I'd have to really go to the woodshed with my steel guitar for the Ancient....but I'd love the challenge.

Matt
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Postby psychopomp95 » Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Dr_Yes wrote:</b>
Arrrgghh!

Sorry psycho, I'm not meaning to have a go or anything, but it's just that I hate this type of topic. It reminds of a spoof done on the rock world in the UK in the 1980s in which the lead guitarist is asked how good he is, to which he replies along the lines of:

'Well I could play Stairway to Heaven by the time I was 12 and Jimmy Page didn't even write it until he was 22......I think that says something'.

Sorry again.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>


<img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle>
NO problem at all!! Don't worry, I never mistake being able to PLAY something as even approaching the talent it actually takes to write it... most of the stuff I write is still at a (relatively) basic strum/chord level, although some of the chords sound pretty neat and unconventional! <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> But I think it'll be a LONG time before I can write a guitar riff/solo approaching 'Stairway' (or 'Gates' for that matter)!
Do you have this mock interview on tape, by the way? <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Hehehe! Sounds like something Spinal Tap might've done as a 'promo'!
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Postby Ed Schaum » Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:08 am

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Posted - Jul 30 2002 : 06:08:23 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
quote:
psychopomp95 wrote:


NO problem at all!! Don't worry, I never mistake being able to PLAY something as even approaching the talent it actually takes to write it... most of the stuff I write is still at a (relatively) basic strum/chord level, although some of the chords sound pretty neat and unconventional! But I think it'll be a LONG time before I can write a guitar riff/solo approaching 'Stairway' (or 'Gates' for that matter)!
Do you have this mock interview on tape, by the way? Hehehe! Sounds like something Spinal Tap might've done as a 'promo'!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I think it is still available on video somewhere in the UK. Whilst you're over here you might want to pick it up or hire it or whatever. It might also be available on cassette. Anyway, it's very funny in a low budget, seedy, reminder of crap bands you've been in in the past sort of way. Here's some stuff from websites on it:

Bad News - the Spoof Heavy Metal Band

Bad News is a spoof heavy metal band created in 1983 as part of the UK TV series The Comic Strip Presents. The band is often referred to as 'The Comic Strip's answer to Spinal Tap', despite the fact that This Is Spinal Tap1 was not released until 1984.

The four members of Bad News are:

Vim Fuego - the egotistical vocalist and lead guitarist, played by Adrian Edmondson

Colin Grigson - the posh and unpopular bassist, played by Rik Mayall

Den Dennis - the remarkably stupid rhythm guitarist, played by Nigel Planer

Spider Webb - the hyperactive drummer, played by Peter Richardson

Their first film, Bad News Tour, follows the band as they set off on the first date of an extremely low budget British tour. Overcoming a broken down van and constant arguments, they finally arrive at the Roxy theatre in Grantham, where they play to four people and a dog.

Due to the popularity of the first film, the Comic Strip team took the unusual step of filming a sequel. 1987's More Bad News shows the band re-forming for a one-off concert, then signing a record contract and eventually playing the Monsters of Rock festival at Castle Donnington, where they are beaten up by the notoriously unforgiving crowd.

While the rest of the 'documentary' was a spoof, the footage of the band on stage at Donnington was genuine, as the comics came dangerously close to becoming a real band in 1987. Having played live at the Donnington festival, the band went on to release a comically poor version of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody and a self-titled album, both produced by Queen's Brian May. The single reached number 44 in the UK charts, and the album number 69. The band released one further single, Cashing In On Christmas, and an album of studio out-takes, Bootleg, before calling it a day.

The band have so far resisted a Spinal Tap-style comeback, although Edmondson, Planer and Richardson re-formed briefly for a Comic Relief special in 1991, and a compilation album, The Cash-In Compilation, was released in 1993.

***************

http://www.badnews.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:46 am

This is a toughy! I really wish I had sheet music for the harpsichord section in "Siberian Khatru" because I don't have a transcriber and it goes by way too fast for me to pick out! Same goes for the fast runs after the moog fanfare in "CTTE" right before the band kicks back in. The organ solo on that is actually relatively easy, once you figure out that a lot of it is just decending patterns down the keyboard. I still gotta figure that one out.

My favorite Yes track to play that I actually deciphered was Machine Messiah, I could play those faster moog lines in the middle part all day! It's so fun!

But of course, the easy stuff is the funnest to play because it requires non usage of the noggin. I love playing And You And I, and stuff like the organ break in Astral Traveler and Parallels.
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Postby jackalz » Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:10 am

Though I'm not a musician, I find singing Circus of Heaven really hard to do.
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Postby RanCan2112 » Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:37 am

Eric, Akai makes (or made) a digital sampler called the Riff-o-Matic that allows you to sample up to 35 seconds off a CD, and slow it down to 1/3 or 1/2 speed without loss of pitch. You can then loop it to facilitate learning because you can plug your instrument in and play along. There is also software that does the same thing, with greater control over the the playback speed.

I have find them incredibly helpful in deciphering some of the faster guitar runs.

Matt
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Postby Roundabout » Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:33 pm

mm let's see:

Keyboards: I'm not a key player, but I'd say the hasprichord solo in Siberian K or some of the moog arrangements in wonderous stories(you may think i'm joking, but there are some really fast descending scaleswith both hands)

Vocals: I guess the hardest things are those sang by Fish or Steve while playin really hard riffs and stuff.

Drums: I don't play drums either but I love figuring out the stuff with strange snare hits and strange metrics that bill does(btw Renato, I'd also had figured out ldr<i'm not trying to compete thought!> and the word you were looking for is bar or compás in spanish...).
Anyway, i think the hardest things are HotS, 5%of nothng(what's the metric of THAT!?) and Silently Falling from Chris's Fish out of the water.
Alan it's a joke compared to Bill.

Guitar: I do play the guitar, but i don't see why everyone says Clap; i mean it's hard, but not THAAT hard, i think it's playable with some good practice. Soundchaser is a though one, it's specially hard to do the tremolo picking with a clean sound. Ctte's intro is very fast and at some parts you can't listen clearly what he plays, thats hard too..

Bass: I play the bass too. Ok, I think Squire it's a great bass player with a style of his own very defined and i admire his job a lot, but i don't found it,in most of the cases, hard to play. Hard to figure out, yes, and hard to sing at the same times too(though i can't sing a note playing or not!), but not too hard to play.
I'd choose Soundchaser, Gates(which i think it's his best performance and there ain't no tab of it!! snif snif...), and the 'solos' he plays somewhere in the songs of Fish out of the water(the chaotic part of silently falling, 1 particular fast riff he plays solo in hold out your hand(those of you who have the record know what i'm talking about))
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Postby IngnoZac » Sat Aug 03, 2002 8:56 am

Eric: I think there's a way to solve your problem. e-mail me.

Roundabout: Yeah, that's bar. Sometimes it happens. I forget the words... And that's compasso for me. <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> Anyway, Soundchaser isn't all that difficult. I can play it and I had no teachers on picking, chromatic exercises and such things. I just sat and learnt. It came naturally. As Close to the Edge did.

Renato

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Postby Roundabout » Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:23 am

Well..I CAN play most of Ctte, but the first minutes kill me! there is a scale i can really hear exactly WHEN it beggins!.And about Soundchaser, well ,maybe with some time I'll learn it the good way... this always happens to me, when I first learn a song that needs speed and technique(i.e. soundchaser, clap) i can play it in the right tempo and alll that but it sounds messy, if you know what i mean.then i have to refine my playing until it sounds nice.

Btw, í have started learning Parallels(in guitar, of course!), it's costing me, but i think i can get it done...; there's one thing i haven't noticed before, the fast pickings he makes during the intro, if played a little slower, doesn't them sound extremedly Brian May's!?!(even though this is older than queen)

what do you think???


PS: (little correction)LDR
Band:4/4
Bruford: 5/8
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Postby IngnoZac » Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:42 am

5/8? I'm pretty sure it was 5/4. And I too try to play it firstly in the correct tempo, then I play it and play it until I get it smooth.

And, of course, it ISN'T Brian, but somehow it makes me remember of him.

Renato

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Postby Roundabout » Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:56 am

I'm pretty sure it's 5/8, you can see (or hear) it because the drum's bar ends BEFORE the band's; because a 5/8 bar is shorter that a 4/4. If it were 5/4, the band would end the bar before Bill, cause 5/4 it's longer than 4/4.
also, when he hits the hihat, you can tell that he's playing 'eights'(i mean each hihat hit it's 1/8, so when you count them you go |1/8 2/8 3/8 4/8 5/8 | 1/8 2/8...etc)
Sorry if i didn't make it clear, I can write in english but i don't know exacly the specific words I should use to talk about music, like, how do you call 1/8 of the bar? and 1/4 of the bar? 1/16??
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Postby IngnoZac » Sun Aug 04, 2002 4:59 am

Bill would end the song if he played the same number of bars that the rest of the band plays. As you can see he plays 4 bars while Jon/Steve/Chris/Rick play five. Then, they finish it together, but Bill plays on 5/4. I've got the magazine here...

Renato

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Postby Roundabout » Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:31 am

oh, what the hell, i'm just not following you now.. let's just leave it there, you can play it, me too, we both understand it. stop.

ok?
greetings...
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Postby IngnoZac » Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:14 am

okey dokey. <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> After all, I don't play drums, you don't play drums and here we are discussing... drums.

Renato

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Postby WalrusOct9 » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:45 am

The best part of playing a lot of different instruments (besides the chicks, I mean, come on :) j/k) is you can appreciate each member of a given band so much more, or at least you feel like you can. Anyways, having attempted several Yes tunes on several instruments, here's my votes for hardest Yes tunes:

Guitar:
1) Sound Chaser...that solo is wicked...
2) The Calling...i know, an odd choice but there's some tight guitar work in this song. I can't figure much of it out, I think it might be tuned differently or something.

Keyboards:
1) CTTE and Awaken, just lots to remember, lots of great keyboard work on both tunes.

Bass:
1) Tempus Fugit. I don't think it's as hard to play as it is to play consistently with the same amount of energy.
2) Sound Chaser. Ditto.

Drums:
1) Heart Of The Sunrise. Might be easy to play for some, but Bruford was the man, and I'd be hard pressed to ever recreate the drum parts to HOTS with the same touch.


I might change my mind later, these are just the first ones that popped into my head...

<hr>-Steve C.
<size=1><I>"I don't wanna scream out loud and wake up on my own." - Oasis
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Postby Conall » Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Roundabout wrote:</b>
mm let's see:

Guitar: I do play the guitar, but i don't see why everyone says Clap; i mean it's hard, but not THAAT hard, i think it's playable with some good practice. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Wow. Either you are extremely talented, or you are talking nonsense. I submit that "Clap" *is* THAAT hard to play--well. Anyone can play any song crappy. To play "Clap" well, so that it sounds decent and keeps your audience's foot bouncing at the same constant beat, is next to IMPOSSIBLE. Yes, parts of it are very easy, like the first several bars. But then, other parts are extremely difficult. And you have to play them all--well--to pull them off. I've been playing it for 20 years and still don't have it down. I'd love to hear you play it!
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Postby mrcairo » Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:42 pm

Soundchaser Soundchaser SOUNDCHASER!!!

I'm a "good" bass player, but a very accomplished YES bass player. And I mean this in a sincerely humble way... really.

It's funny, because when the song really begins to "break out" I put the bass down, and have to wait.... I'm defeated!!! :) It's SO aggrivating!!! I play by ear, and after 15+ years of listening to the song.. I still can't "hear" the lines well enough, or get the timing perfect.

It's a beautiful cacophony!
Another one is "On Silent Wings of Freedom" It's 3 different songs played simultaneously. If I could ONLY read music!!!

Does Chris give lessons? ;) I live in NY.

KX
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Postby RanCan2112 » Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:56 am

Whether "Clap" is hard or not so hard probably depends on what style guitar playing you're used to playing. I grew up playing rock and roll with a pick, so I always have a problem keeping that bouncy feel with the combination picking he does. Some of the chord voicings are a bit of a stretch for my fingers as well.
I'd be interested to know what really accomplished finger-pickers think about how hard the piece is. I remember a guy in working at a music store whipping through it when I was in the store. I was in awe, especially when he told me it only took him a few weeks to learn (maybe he was b/s'ing me!)
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Postby Squireaholic » Wed Aug 07, 2002 1:38 am

Roundy and Igno: Bruford is not playing 5/4, 8 or anything in five. He's playing in 4 and accenting succesive beats: ONE-2-3-4,1-TWO-3-4,1-2-THREE-4,1-2-3-FOUR, 1-2-3-4 (repeat until dizzy!)Remember , he was the ripe old age of 17 when he came up with that. Rick recapitulates this pattern on LDR Yessongs.
Hardest on Bass? besides the obvious already stated (all of Relayer, SWoF), let's not forget HooS! Changing tempoes,. patterns, an extended bass solo, stops and starts on a dime. Truly a masterpiece!
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Postby Mola Mola » Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:47 am

wow...what a loaded question!

For keyboards I'd have to go with the keyboard run in Sound Chaser (at the beginning). Actually, even with my jazz background, a lot of Moraz stuff seems more challenging to try and break down than Wakey's.

Then again, to get the opening to Awaken "really" tight with both hands is quite a bitch!!

For drums: I agree with Heart of the Sunrise: the thing that Bruford plays during the main riff is tricky!!!

I don't play guitar or bass so I'll leave that alone. But our new guitar player in Cinema Show seems equally at home with Howe as well as Hackett...every time I walk into rehearsals he breaks into various Yes tunes....the guy is a monster!

---Matt

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Postby bobthesalesclerk » Wed Aug 07, 2002 5:36 pm

Well this ones a tuff one being as most <img src=pix/icon_yes_yes.gif border=0 align=middle>songs are pretty difficult to play. . .but if i had to choose most difficult for each instrument it would be.

Drums - gates of delerium(yesshows version). . .this song is extremely hard to play. This song is 17 straight minutes of 16th notes in wierd time signatures with complicated drum fills and beats.

Guitar - CTTE/clap. . .ive been trying to get CTTE down for about 4 months now and im about 2 minutes through. . .clap is also an extremely difficult song. . .i picked up the tabs and set them right back down after 10 minutes of trying(maybe when i get better)

Keyboards - CTTE opening. . .im not even gonna try this(my brother can do it pretty damn good though). . .the only part of this song that i can actually play on keyboards is the solo in i get up i get down.

Bass - im gonna hafta say the bass solo in ritual. . .it sounds pretty dificult.

Vocals - everything.
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Postby mrcairo » Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:52 am

To add to the hardest to play on the bass side... I forgot about Tempus Fugit, and even I'm Running. Personally I like to everything from Drama. It has some of the best bass lines on any rock album I've personally ever heard.
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