Jazz . . . the final frontier?



Jazz . . . the final frontier?

Postby theproffet » Wed Jul 17, 2002 2:16 pm

I'm not the ultimate Jazzer, but my taste does lean a bit that way, probably more than most. There's a great quote from Donald Fagan of Steely Dan, saying something like, "It doesn't take a lot of jazz influence to really piss off rock fans," or something to that effect. I think he's right, but I still wonder why that is . . .

I can think of several "rock" musicians I really like who've borrowed from the jazz lexicon--Steely, Ricki Lee Jones, Joni, and Joe Jackson. Of course, not counting Zappa, who is an entity to himself . . .

I got into jazz years ago, via Pat Metheny, who I still dig. A very lyrical, and sometimes experimental guitarist, and a Missouri boy! Now I'm tracing my way back through the history, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Bird . . . I even love Louis Armstrong now.

I'm sure there's another Jaco fan out there! <img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr><font color=blue>"Here come the planes. They're American planes. Made in America. Smoking or non-smoking?" </font id=blue> Laurie Anderson
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Postby Mola Mola » Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:33 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>theproffet wrote:</b>
There's a great quote from Donald Fagan of Steely Dan, saying something like, "It doesn't take a lot of jazz influence to really piss off rock fans," or something to that effect. I think he's right, but I still wonder why that is . . .
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I wonder why too...for example, one would think that people who like guitar shredders might appreciate John Coltrane, despite the stylistic differences between jazz and rock.

The leaky cauldron that created both jazz and rock contained many of the same ingredients (R&B, straight blues) but the swing/no swing issue seems to be the biggest difference. It is true that early rock has a swing that must have derived from big bands, jump swing, etc., whereas a lot of post-50s "white" rock loses that swing feel. Rock also did have roots in country and white folk music, which I don't believe influenced jazz very much at all--at least not very audibly!

Even though Yes has a lot of classical influence (especially in terms of structure) there is a bit of jazz in obviously Steve Howe, Patrick Moraz, and even Peter Banks. Does this make Yes fans more likely to "cross over"? I don't know....and because of my education (in jazz a few years before getting into Yes) IMHO I'm disqualified from guessing!

It's probably no accident that The Police and Sting's music shows some jazz influence too---after all, Mr. Sumner was in a jazz band playing upright bass before forming the Police, and Andy Summers has lots of jazz chords in his vocab...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I got into jazz years ago, via Pat Metheny, who I still dig. A very lyrical, and sometimes experimental guitarist, and a Missouri boy! Now I'm tracing my way back through the history, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Bird . . . I even love Louis Armstrong now.
I'm sure there's another Jaco fan out there! <img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

For me, the only live show that could even come close to topping Yes would be the Pat Metheny Group.

Wow...your experience with jazz sounds very similar to mine. My father played the 1978 PMG album a lot when I was growing up, alongside Miles, Coltrane, etc. The Metheny was the only thing he played that I liked for a few years, and then the earlier artists started to get me.

And yes, I am a Jaco fan as well, although my favorite period of his has to be 1976-78. I wonder what he'd have created had his path been different, and not so destructive.

---Matt

<hr>I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here
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Postby hygrade77 » Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:03 am

I think for rock fans to get into jazz, jazz guitarists are a good introduction because in rock the guitar is so much in the forefront.
I can reccomend with confidence the following Jazz guitarists....

Grant Green
John McLaughlin
Joe Pass
Wes Montgomerey
Al DiMeola
Bill Frissell


And for Jazz in general you cannont miss with:

Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Charles Mingus
Duke Ellington
Jaco Pastorius
Return to Forever
Thelonious Monk
Louis Armstrong
Art Blakey
McCoy Tyner
Clifford Brown
Charlie Parker
Horace Silver
Dexter Gordon
Wayne Shorter
Johnny Griffin
Herbie Hancock

This is coming from me whose first love was Prog and Classic Rock, and still loves it. Jazz was progressive long before the MOOG was invented..........
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