Meaning of Yes II



Meaning of Yes II

Postby YEStalk Archives » Fri Feb 09, 2001 11:15 am

Seryn
Moderator
(3/29/00 12:10:40 pm)
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Although I love Yes, there are still things that I haven't been able to figure out about them.
They talk a lot about religion, but I really can't figure out if they believe in any specific one.
The reason I'm even bringing this up is for my dad. We were talking about Wonderous
Stories and told me that it sounded like a Christian song to him. He said he doubted that
it was, though. He seems to believe that the entire band believes in an Asian religion. I've
heard too many references to the Christian religion in their music to be that sure.

So, do any of you know where their beliefs lie? I read something in Opio World about Jon's
beliefs, but I don't know about the rest of the band. I'm still not sure what Jon believes,
actually. I got the feeling he thought all religions should just be brought together or some-
thing. Myself, I'm not really concerned w/ the bands beliefs; that's their business. But I
would like for my dad to stop asking me about itj, so, I want to find him a final answer.

Be Free


Ed Schaum
Administrator
(3/29/00 9:29:57 pm)
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The religious themes drift in and out, and at first glance it may seem that Christian themes dominate, but I don't think that's really the case.

For me, the most telling line is -
"See the desert, I have walked the paths of all the known religions"

I think most of their music embodies a spirituality that shows that you don't need any specific religion to, for instance, see the wonder of God in a dewdrop.


Seryn
Moderator
(3/30/00 12:39:31 pm)
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You know, that's what I kept telling my dad, but he didn't seem to take my word for it. I
guess if that's really what they're conveying, I should just give up explaining it to my
dad because that's not what he wants to hear. If he doesn't want to hear it then he isn't
going to listen. He is the one who introduced me to Yes, but now he acts like I shouldn't
listen to them if their religious views are different from Christian beliefs. I try to tell him that
their beliefs don't determine whether I listen to the music or not. It's very frustrating, but I
don't guess I'll win the everlasting debate between us.

What really kills me is that I'll find him playing Yes on his CD player or he'll start to talk
about how awesome the concerts were. He really loves the music himself. He just dwells
on the lyrics way too much. I told him that the lyrics have a different meaning to me than
they do to the band members. I adapt my favorite music to my own life.

I'd really like for my dad and I to come to an agreement on this, but it seems impossible.
The only reason its so important is...he introduced me to this music. He taught me how
to play the music myself. I relate Yes to my dad because it was my dad that brought
the wonderful band to me. How can it be a main arguing point between us now?

Well, I don't usually come Yestalk to whine on everybody's shoulder, but this is something
that bothers me. Talking about it just helps me get things straight in my head. And who
knows? Maybe someone here will have a suggestion that can help. Its certainly worth
a try!

Thanx!

Be Forever


Poodeeo
Global user
(3/30/00 10:27:53 pm)
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Well, we all know that talking about religion is a dangerous thing; it''s estimated that the majority of the world's wars & suffering have been and continue to be due to religion. But to help you with Jon's lyrics, I'll agree with ED and expand just a bit. If you read the inside cover of Topographic Oceans, you'll notice Jon make reference to a book he was reading "Autobiograghy of a Yogi" which was written by Yogananda. I never payed any attention to that reference when I bought the album in '73?, but I have since read it after i visited India in '96. Get the book and read it. It will blow your mind. And I don't believe Yogananda would ever lie. The other thing to note is "Prayersong" from Jon's Angels Embrace CD. Those lyrics are straight out of the indian Upanishads, which are 8000 year old sanskrit scriptures. I mean word for word. What this means is that Jon believes in a creator, a trancendant, and that all religions are merely a different way to experience that idea. Like different software, you know? Tell your dad to expand his conciousness and realize that Christ is within, so is Budda, Kristna, Mohammed, and all the other great sages who woke up, broke through, and realized their own Divinity. I know I'll catch hell for this, but I hope it helps. BTW, if you really want to blow your dad's mind, have him read Jon's essays at Opioworld. Namaste


Seryn
Moderator
(4/4/00 10:30:40 am)
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You won't catch hell from me because I don't even know where my religious believes lie
exactly. I really actually kind of understand where Jon is coming from. I don't think
that way exactly but I think similarly. I think that anyone who gives his/her life to a God
and wants to do good can't be going wrong. Someone once told me I'd go to HELL if I
didn't get saved. I just can't understand that thinking. Will a person who puts his life out
on a limb to help humankind and make this world a better place to live in go to hell. I
ended up telling that person that if God thought like that then he wasn't my God. Not
everyone knows about being saved, but they still do their best to please God.

So, in my own way I certainly understand Jon's beliefs. I don't know if my dad would
ever go for it. I am not asking him to. But I would like him to know where Yes is
coming from once and for all, so he will stop wondering if their is a deeper thing to
what Yes is saying. Like they are evil or something. He knows better, but like
everyone in my family he is crazy.

I really appreciate that response. It was the clearest (and the bravest) answer I've
ever got about Yes's lyrics.

Be Free


theproffet
Global user
(4/5/00 4:07:20 pm)
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There's that great line in the Ghandi movie--"I am a Hindu, and a Muslim, and a Christian . . ." or words to that effect, that I can see Jon agreeing with. Then again, you could just say Napoleon never met a spiritual path he didn't like! Religion (or at least organized religion) always gets put down in his lyrics, while all sorts of spirituality and mysticism can get mixed together. I wondered about his thanks in the Ladder CD, where he mentions "Divine Mother, Audrey, and the Spiritual Family." He's got a lot of Earth-centered, feminine qualities, but I don't think he could be considered conventionally Pagan. (Hmm-I wonder if I'm a "seasoned witch.")


rushaholic
Global user
(4/5/00 7:17:44 pm)
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I've noticed several religious themes in Yes songs as well. I don't think Jon is necessarily expressing his personal beliefs in any of them, but just talking about religion in general. If they are his beliefs, than I think he is confused as to what he believes, or he is not able to narrow it down into one belief, because it all seems rather diversified.

One question: How can one be both a Hindu, Muslim and a Christian? I don't know much about the other two, but Christianity requires one to accept Jesus Christ as our SOLE Lord and Savior. Wouldn't this make it hard to be of other religions as well?
Rushaholica
The Ladder of Syrinx Message Board


Poodeeo
Global user
(4/5/00 8:46:12 pm)
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I think your missing the point. The bigger picture is that WE ARE ALL ONE. Modern Christianity is exclusionary and divisive. Ghandi accepted the truth in all religions, ie, he did not focus upon "differences", but the commoness of all religions. Jon is not confused, trust me.


Seryn
Moderator
(4/6/00 10:12:02 am)
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I can tell ya a little about what Jon means about the Divine Mother, but it would be easier
for you to go straight to the source. Jon has an essay written about meeting her at
Opioworld. The only thing I'll tell you is she is a very elderly lady who has the same
believes as Jon and evidently she is a very intense person. Jon speaks very highly of her.
Audrey is also linked into it. She is one of the ppl who introduced Jon to the "Spiritua
l Family." I believe this family is just a group of ppl who all believe as Jon does about
religion. Blah, blah, blah...just go to Opioworld. I'll be quiet, now, because I barely know
what I'm talking about.

Be Forever


Seryn
Moderator
(4/6/00 10:28:06 am)
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Rush, I have had the same thoughts as you about Jon. I believe Jon must have grown up
in a Christian home, more-than-likely. He did live in England. Being a musician during the
70s would have confused anyone. The Beatles and even the Beach Boys were all very
involved in the eastern beliefs: Hinduism, Buddism, etc. It was a fad, but to Jon it was and
still is a very serious thing. It wasn't something to do as a fad, it was a journey for his soul
to find which religion was the right one. As it is for many of us. From there Jon was led
to the beliefs he has, now. Of course he has been confused. Most ppl are about religion
at some point in there life. But Jon certainly doesn't sound confused or hesitant about
what he believes now. I certainly don't believe the same things he does, but I can relate
to what he is saying.

I have decided Jesus is for me; I believe he is the only one. But I believe most
religions are worshiping the same God, just in a different ways. I am not saying
those religions are all right; they can't be. I don't believe God expects it that way.
Logically (not the way I usually think, but here goes), geographic differences would prevent everyone from having the same kind of beliefs. But everyone came from the same ancestors according
to the Bible and most other religious documents. So, it would make sense that we are
all worshiping the same God. If you are following me, you now see why I agree with Jon's
sense of things in a way. I certainly can't believe everything he is for because I
have chosen Jesus and Christianity.

Well, I'm not sure if anything I've said makes any sense to you all, but I tried to explain
my view of things. Of course not all of you will agree, but that's what makes message
boards great. It brings so many different ppl into one place. It leads to interesting
conversations like these. How wonderful is that?

Be Forever




rushaholic
Global user
(4/6/00 4:01:09 pm)
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Re: Jon's Beliefs
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It's been interesting hearing everyone's opinions. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I just wanted to know some stuff. Later.
Rushaholica
The Ladder of Syrinx Message Board


jackalz
Member
(8/26/00 1:03:57 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del A continuing theme
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In lieu of wonderings of where Seryn stands, and because of her busy schedule... From several months ago... Not that they've stayed the same and not that my interpretation is correct... She's apparently Christian, and open minded.

I would just disagree with, "they can't be all right". That takes a quantum leap to understand, I guess. But simply put, God looks at the individual's soul/heart/mind, whether Christian, KRSNA-ian, atheist, or one who doesn't care, --or other species. So, even though their beliefs aren't vocabularily the same, they and you are still following God in your center.((IMHAPO) ...that's humble and proud)

We don't even need to try, we are one. (even when I forget, sometimes)


Yesman90125,

You're entry in "spillover" hit me like a Squire bass theme.


mertes
Member
(8/26/00 8:32:12 pm)
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I have always found that I can apply YES music and lyrics to my own beliefs. What ever beliefes the band members have thier music has always been applicable to me. I consider myself a believer in Jesus of Nazareth. PEACE


yesfan37
Member
(8/26/00 10:01:09 pm)
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check out this site for more on the Spiritual Family
www.srkspiritualfamily.com/




walkinlight
Member
(8/27/00 2:19:04 pm)
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this is the first message i ever left here
i have been interested in YES and Jon since early teen in late seventies

Jon's solo stuff with vangelis and kitaro, or alone, like EarthMotherEarth and Toltec leave anyone who has eyes open to think and feel and wonder. To get into specific lines and lyrics would take the better part of this new millenium, but to just say i am grateful to all of you serious yes fans and yes lyric fans

Jon and group have brought me to greater heights (sorry for the personalism in this)

more to come from me will be more specific to issues stated

Re: Relgion, i have found myself telling people that the religions of the world known to me all have the same message
and that that message is that we are a part of the Whole
and that there is this thing that never began and never will end, all around and in us
the All in All and Thru in Thru
what you do with it is up to you


yesman90125
Member
(8/27/00 5:16:11 pm)
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actually i have been corresponding with audry in hawaii for several months now.
if you follow the link at opioworld i garuntee she will respond
the divine mother jon speaks of is supposed to be
the reincarnation of Sarada Devi consort to Ramakrishna
both spititual teachers around the turn of the century
in India.
audry has taken on the role of spiritual leader since the passing of the divine mother many years ago. and jon has been very involved. he consideres himself a devotee of the divine mother(thereby essentialy a Visnuvian)
the practice is based on hinduism.
Rick is a devout christian
as for the rest of the band I dont know what they believe
Chris said on rockline when asked the question that he believed in hope.

AT ONE WITH THE KNOWLAGE AND MAGIC OF THE SOURCE


Ed Schaum
SysOp
(9/10/00 9:38:48 am)
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Hi, walkinlight,

Welcome to YEStalk.

I haven't been so good with checking in lately, but since we seem to have such an excellent group of people here, that doesn't matter too much!

As you can see, the discussions here are always excellent, so hope you'll be dropping in often.

Ed


Golden Void
Member
(9/10/00 4:41:55 pm)
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Could someone give the link to opioworld? I've always found the lyrics intriguing, and to say different things to me at different times, though there was much I simply did not understand. I haven't looked at them in a long time until tripping over the discussions on this board, and they say a lot more to me now. Also from discussions on this board, it sounds like Jon's beliefs may be quite similar to my own, and so I'm most interested in reading the material on opioworld that has been mentioned.

Personally, I think there's one universe, one truth, and it is complex beyond our imagining. And all the religions of the world (in this sense also including science as one of them) are seeking to understand this one truth. And to varying degrees, they've all succeeded, but it's like the allegory of the children and the elephant someone posted in the theology spillover thread (I actually heard it as blind men and an elephant): Each touches a different part of the truth, and looks at it from a different perspective, and thus they see it differently. Also, a lot of the difference is simply vocabulary.

I don't believe any of the religions have an exclusive claim to the truth, though most of them claim to, and that's my biggest departure from them. I can calmly and rationally discuss religion with Christians or Pagans, or anyone else, because while my beliefs may conflict with theirs, theirs don't conflict with mine, other than the extent to which they feel that because they are right, everyone else must be wrong. And I see no need to convince anyone else that they are wrong, so I let that go.

We are part of this reality, and we each relate to it in our way, and I don't think any of those ways is wrong. Some are more limited than others, and some conflict with each other, but reality conflicts with itself too, if you pick a particular perspective from which to judge it, because our perspectives are limited. I've found most of the so called problems and paradoxes disappear if you approach them from a suitable perspective.

And it sounds like Jon may be the only person I've ever heard of whose beliefs may be similar to my own. I guess I know why his lyrics seem more meaningful to me now, and I'd like to read more about his beliefs.


jackalz
Member
(9/10/00 9:12:08 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Opioworld
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members.aol.com/opiowrld/opiowrld.html

Void-ster,
You probably don't know about the cache of information at www.nfte.org the official Yes website. You could have found the path to opio and vast other band and fan info from there.




Golden Void
Member
(9/10/00 11:20:10 pm)
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Re: Opioworld
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No I didn't. Thanks


walkinlight
Member
(9/11/00 5:40:03 am)
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Ed thanks for the welcome

looking forward to many a discussion and gaining new knowledge

we start dying once we stop living
we stop living once we stop learning
we stop learning once we believe we know everything
we believe we know everything once we stop looking

so we may all wish to Open our Eyes and Talk while we ascend up The Ladder

PS what does Meaning of Yes mean?
are we discussing specific lyrics and movements in songs?
are we discussing the Meaning of the band itself?

there is much fruit on this tree
all Awakening
all restoring us

let's keep it going


Seryn
Member
(9/11/00 11:47:49 am)
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Void, I saw you over in AH and didn't realize you were a Yesfan. Cool!

Yesman, I am a Christian and I certainly agree on your view...that is what Jesus is all about. He understands everybody's standing in religion and I think that what matters ultimately...is a person's need and want to do what is right. We are all truly one.

Dang it! I'll have to continue this wonderful conversation when I get back from Environmental Biology. I'll get back with you ASAP. I have more to say...whether you all want to hear it or not

Be Forever


Golden Void
Member
(9/11/00 9:29:14 pm)
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Seryn, I only found AH from the link here. I've been a prog fan (among other things) for a very long time. I was late discovering Yes. I'd heard their music on the radio but never really got into it, until Drama. I loved that, and then started working my way backwards. Drama and Relayer are still my favorites, but I like most of the "classic Yes" material. And lately, I've been getting a lot more out of the lyrics, so my interest has been rejuvenated yet again.

If you're into other prog, check out:
pub23.ezboard.com/bprogfaith


Seryn
Member
(9/12/00 4:10:32 pm)
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Thanx, Void. I'll check that out. Maybe I'll even leave a post there. Just remind me never to skip a day of coming to Yestalk. I haven't read this much since I got obcessed with the Terry Brooks Shannara series back in middle school! WOW!

Be Forever
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