Yestalk theology sppillover #3



Yestalk theology sppillover #3

Postby YEStalk Archives » Fri Feb 09, 2001 11:47 am

Poodeeo
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(12/15/00 2:08:08 pm)
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Maybe my print-out of Clap is slightly off on chart numbers, but in your notes you say it's the hardest part of the piece. I'm talking about where it starts with:
13
X
12
12
10
X

If this measure is easy for you, your awesome! Do you double bar it, or
finger it 1234, and shift (4) from 13 to 12 and vice versa?

Serendipity: While Driving home yesterday, I was finishing up a lecture series by Ken Wapnick,PhD, and he made reference to the Seth channelings. His reference was in relation to time, or the illusion of it. The idea that we experince time as linear, but in fact(also as shown by quantum theory) is holographic, and that all incarntions are simultaneous, while in fact our experience is linear. This idea is parallel to the course's teaching that the world was over long ago; we're merely replaying the "tapes" in our minds.

Regarding the pages of "Journey...", I'll look tonight, but I'm sure you can pull it up at Amazon.com and it will tell the #pages. It will be well worth anyone's time.

About Helen, I'm no expert, but I've read "Journey..", and listened to many hours worth of Ken Wapnick's lectures on the course. His history is also in "Journey..." and I think you'll see that his life's work is to preserve the teachings of the course, because people's natural tendancy is to bring the Truth to their illusions, rather than bring their illusions to the Truth, no matter what spiritual path you speak of. Helen and Bill's names do not appear on the cover of the course, because the course was meant to stand on its own.

I read an interesting post at "Southside" this morning, and thought you all may enjoy it:

Hello,
Sorry to be in the lurking for such a long time, starting a new
business, trying to sell my old, getting ready for the holidays, moving...
well I am sure everyone is busy this time of the year.
Anyway I just could not resist the tormato conversation...

In my little opinion I do not think that DKtW is specifically a song about
Christians. I could offer the support Howe-ever that Jesus did say that the
only sign would be the sign of Jonahs. Without going to far into that
subject, though it is very interesting, it is of course about Jonahs coming
out of the whale after 3 days and 3 nights and coming into humanity. So
there is a Whale of a theme there (sorry I could not resist that either).
Howe-ever I also have heard Jon in various "legs" of concerts say
that this is simply about whales and I do recall the interview with Chris.
But outside of that song I think there is a much better case. It is
sure that Jon, nor Chris, nor Steve (they help write the lyrics too
remember) would call themselves members of any church. But I remember Jon
saying he is Christian at the Talk concert in St. Louis and the added that
he is also now very sure about reincarnation. At other times he has
referred to the true religion. Also he has spoken about "walking the paths
of all the known religions" in ABWH. Now just because someone says they are
Christian does not mean that they are limited by the Dogma and doctrine of
the oversized mustard tree that is The Church today. I think many people
can see that all institutionalized religion is in decline today. If not
that is a topic for off this list, though I am happy to discuss it. Anyway
it is sure that many people are seeking for something that they call
Spirituality. We have all had our peak moments of sensing the High
vibrations, feeling our oneness midst the being of everyone... WE often
loss words to go beyond reason into the super consciousness of the soul,
where little linear words do not have the same weight and are more meta
symbols. But always these moments are fleeting and come silently and leave
the same way... Silent wings of freedom to me. Freewill.
It is also very ironic that Plato was invoked on all this. There
are very few souls that are as Christian as Plato. Although reincarnation
has been erased from the original teachings of Christ, (by decree of
Constantine under pressure of his *special* wife, who was not a believer,
and in my opinion maybe the opposite...), they are still reflected in almost
all the other works of religions, sacred texts, and mystics. It is sure
that the same high vibrations of Gods presence resonate in everything and
that slowly over time Humans understand it more and more.
Perhaps now people are ready to leave the rigid crutch of Dogma and
static teachings and to replace the power once of the clergy and initiated
back into God, the Source, the Light, or whatever word back into our Hearts
or as Jon would say our sacred Heart...Our Soul. Which is the only true
master we can ever trust 100%. The higher souls, the trinity and the saints
are all just guides to remind us to look within and throughout...midst the
being of everyone.
It is certain to me that Jon is a special soul, though he is a bit
caught up with his ego as is the pitfall of his situation and as a musician
with some notoriety. (I just hope he can still here the call, but that is
another story...) Anyway, one thing we can all see is that Jon is always
trying to sing us back to our sacred heart to course our way through the
shadows on the way back Home. Follow the Light of our soul.
Of course without the discernment of our own soul all I say or
anyone does is just rhetoric. As usual the only truth can be found within.
But I thought I would mention what comes up in me with all this for sake of
conversation, and also as some had pointed out I had been silent a bit to
long,
Anyway for those of you who think I am a heretic, and maybe I am to
the institution, I thought I would leave with some impressive words of St.
Augustine the 1st so called Dr. and father of the church, whom I sense had a
pretty good Universal grip on the truth, a sense of the invisible which is
the only place that the truth can be sensed beyond the surfaces... They
look within the sound, but what is sound Vibration...what where they looking
for? I am not sure it has become clear to the band themselves. But in the
Vibrations there is knowledge of the universal. We can sense it with our
Heart or Soul. We can sense the High Vibrations to guide us. Back to the
Highest Light. That is what I found in me and Jon encouraged me as he did
most of us... I hope Jons search is fruitful, and everyone's. So I hope I
can also sing the songs of this Universal season to help Awaken us all
again. That awareness that comes and goes silently, that Spirit. To the
Come and go of Freedom. This is all I ever talk about.

"The very thing we refer to as 'Christian religion' existed in antiquity and
never ceased to exist, from the origins of mankind until the time when,
after Christ himself came, people started calling 'Christian' the 'true
religion' which has existed earlier.
Saint Augustine (354-430 A.D.)

Suns...High...Streams...Thru...
Olias





Poodeeo
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(12/15/00 5:57:06 pm)
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"Journey Without Distance" is 135 pages, medium size print, medium size book. Enjoy.


conall
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(12/15/00 8:15:16 pm)
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Poodeeo,

I think we are talking about the same part of the Clap tune. You must have an older version. The latest version is in PDF format, and I rearranged the chart order to fit better. I highly recommend that you download the latest. Yes, I think that's probably the hardest part of the song!

Regarding that excerpted post on Christianity. That guy has no clue what he's talking about. For example, Plato was about as far from the teachings of Christianity as you can get!! Plato taught that the stuff of this world, and particularly our bodies, is bad, impure, disgusting, etc. Christianity says, "God looked at His creation and said it is good" (not an exact quote). Christianity promises that our bodies will someday be restored and renewed, not ditched like so much garbage as Plato hopes for. He is correct that a lot of Christianity is washed out and nominal. But that does not mean that Christ is washed out and nominal, something that I've been repeating ad nauseum. Prosperity in America is terrible trap for Christians. People make wealth and medicine and entertainment their idols and turn away from God, who alone can provide the most and best satisfaction now and forevermore. He's also right that Augustine was a giant of the faith. His reference is likely to something in Hebrews that discusses the overriding importance of faith, which saved folks that lived before Christ appeared in the flesh (e.g., Abraham and Noah). I heartily recommend his book "Confessions," which discusses his migration from debauched paganism (reminds me of college) to Christ and includes some great common sense wrestling with the problems of life and faith, etc. It's amazingly fresh and relevant for a book that was written over 1600 years ago.

Thanks for the page count. I'll get back.

See ya.


theproffet
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(12/16/00 4:03:46 am)
| Edit | Del Over 200 replies? I've created a monster!
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It's going to take me forever to read and digest all this talk!
"When a piece gets difficult, make faces"--Vladimir Horowitz


Poodeeo
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(12/16/00 9:11:08 am)
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Con, I do have the pdf format, but because I wanted to learn TYA version, I surgically cut & pasted all of TYA parts onto one layout. That may have changed the numbering, I'm not sure.

thanx


conall
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(12/18/00 12:11:41 am)
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Poodeeo,

I have come to a decision. I am not going to read "Journey." There are many reasons. A big one is that I just don't have the time. It would mean reading the book, and then continuing our debate here for God knows how long! I just don't have that kind of time. I am very secure in my faith, and reading this book would certainly not sway me. You have already read through the Bible 12 times, so reading the gospels again would almost certainly not sway you. So what's the point? My time would be far better spent finishing "Clap" or learning another Howe or Phil Keaggy tune.

It's amazing what God puts in my path every day. Everyday for the last two weeks I have heard something pertinent to our debate on the radio as I drive to work (ususally, it's RC Sproul). And then today I saw this ad for one of those new "reality shows" on Fox in which, apparently, guys like us are on some beach surrounded by knockout T&A, flesh, bikinis, etc., and the "entertainment value" is apparently, will the guy cheat on his wife?!? (I may be wrong; it was a 30 second spot). To me, that's another big problem with reading "Journey." If I read it, I'd feel like an adulterer. I am Christ's bride, and I have no business looking at other "meat" walking/bouncing down the beach. I'm sure that sounds absolutely crazy to you. But so be it. I felt I owed you an explanation.

I said I was weary, and I meant it. It's not that I'm afraid or close minded, just tired and already spoken for. Perhaps Rushaholic is in the same boat. Haven't heard from him in some time.

I really enjoy talking Clap or other Yes stuff. And I was thrilled to be used by God to help Seryn and her dad in some small way. But I think I will call it quits on this debate. (I know I've said something similar before. Sorry! This time I mean it.)

Someday, maybe we'll be able to get together on someone's front porch and trade Howe licks. Or see a Yes concert together! That would be great.

See ya, with love,

Conall




Poodeeo
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(12/18/00 1:49:45 pm)
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I accept your resignation, with reservation. Sorry, but no severance package is available.

All kidding aside, if this is what your guided to do, who am I to dispute your inner Voice? One cannot judge on the level of form. But remember, in any seeming conflict, the ego speaks first,loudest, and instills a sense of fear.

Journey is nothing more than the biography of the key people responsible for the Course. It is not the course, despite a few short passages given for clarity as to what was going on at the time. If you want real meat, and you say you do not, then the meat is the course itself. It's only a history and biographies.

OK, so let's talk YES, Howe, and gtrs? Are you going to avoid splurging on the forthcoming Howe ES 175?????
Won't it go nicely, next to the 0018??? I've had a framed picture of Howe and the ES on my wall(s) since '75! I know it's going to cost out the *ss, but what the heck? Maybe Fred will come through again!!

we have heaven


conall
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(12/18/00 3:20:48 pm)
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The ES-175 would go nice next to the Martin, but I don't play electric. I don't play electric because I don't play in a band. So I can't justify it. (Though I could have easily if my crystal ball would have told me 6 months ago how much I'd be losing in the stock market! A piece of functional sculpture would be far better than nothing.

But I'd love to see yours. Maybe Ed will take the plunge too.


Poodeeo
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(12/18/00 5:52:40 pm)
| Edit | Del Re: Con's last...& ES 175
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Band, who's in a band here other than Ed?? Who says you have to be in a band to have an electric gtr?? Just fire up a drum machine or a CD. Besides, a hollow body souds great not even plugged in! My bet is that you'll change your mind when the PR starts flowing and the 11th hour rings. You know too that this is a sound investment; better and more valuable with age!
Only question is, what's the wife gonna say when I find out how much it costs??


conall
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(12/18/00 10:53:45 pm)
| Edit | Del Re: Con's last...& ES 175
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What does Fred say?

"Call Fred, DIRECT" or something. He'll set you up!

You're right. It would have been a far better investment than them crappy tech stocks! But now it's too late.

I saw Leo Kottke once play a great solo mini set on an electric. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have one. And Steve's story with his guitar is so interesting. It was like the second guitar he ever had (and the best). And he used to sleep with it!

I saw a 1955 ES-175 a few months ago. The guitar player at church was playing it on loan from a friend. I was sitting in the congregation, and I took a double take. Whoa! (He usually plays a Taylor 514.) What a beauty. Sunburst, just like Steve's. Just a few years older. I went up after and got a close up view. Stunningly beautiful.

About your wife... you'll think of something.


walkinlight
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(12/21/00 12:17:12 am)
| Edit | Del much ado etc
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love reading all this
gets the mind going

find our Way back Home


walkinlight
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(12/27/00 5:26:03 pm)
| Edit | Del links
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does anyone know how to put a link (website) into a reply?
YEStalk Archives

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Postby Seryn » Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:22 am

<font color=purple>I just completely missed this entire topic...how I did that I don't know. Must have been when I was gone. But very interesting.

Conall pulled out, huh? Can't blame ya, but you did help me and my dad quite a bit...oh, and for some good news, my dad is getting real help now AND is showing improvement. He is communicating with the family and even laughing with us.

Walker, sorry if this is too late...but to put a link into a reply I think you just type it in...you know...

www.yesworld.com ...I think it will automatically link it, i'm gonna find out in a sec though...be right back...</font id=purple>
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Postby Seryn » Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:23 am

<font color=orange>...yep! It works...so that's pretty easy. It may have been a lot different with ezboard, but its certainly simple enough here. i have considered that you have probably found that out already Walker, but I have nothing better to do, so maybe someone else will benefit from that if you don't *shrug*
</font id=orange>

<hr>B4EVER
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Postby poodeeo » Wed Mar 14, 2001 3:34 am

In some of the other threads, we've touched on the idea of living in the "present moment" as it pertains to what each of us likes/wants from YES. I think most of us agree that we should try to accept them as they are, at every moment.

Question: What does it mean to live in the present moment, not just as it pertains to YES, but in our realtionships as a whole?

I would say that the "present moment" can be desribed as that state of mind where there is no guilt and no fear. Guilt deals with the past, and fear deals with the future. These two states of mind constantly push aside the present moment, and limit our reality. What we all forget is that this is a concious choice, free will as it's called. Guided by these, we literally create the world we see, which is illusion. So if we can work on letting go of these two "demons", we can have heaven, all the time.

High vibration go on...
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Postby yesman90125 » Wed Mar 14, 2001 9:06 am

I would argue (as I think I have before)
that the only thing that does infact exist is
the present moment
since the past no longer exists
and the future does not yet exist
we have only now
but
we spend all our time fretting about the past
worrying about the future
and
almost none of our energy is dovoted to
the present moment
when infact the present moment
is the only tru reality
taken a step further
time is an illusion of our own minds
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Postby jackalz » Wed Mar 14, 2001 11:37 am

I've got to agree, except when you are fearing or feeling guilty in the moment, then that just is that now. So there's no need to fight that feeling of the moment, and maybe learn from it.
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Postby poodeeo » Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I've got to agree, except when you are fearing or feeling guilty in the moment, then that just is that now. So there's no need to fight that feeling of the moment, and maybe learn from it.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Jack, I don't see it. If the now your speaking of contains guilt or fear in your mind, your not really in the "now", are you? If guilt is of the past, and fear of the future, one couldn't really be in the moment and posess either, could they? I think a true state of peace is without either. My point is that the moment you experience either, your out of your true reality.

High vibration go on...
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Postby every1is1 » Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:53 pm

I think you all need to read some Alan Watts.
The only thing that exists is the present moment and everything is this moment, this eternal moment, this dynamic moment..all the fears, all the laughs, all the sadness, all the joys, all the pain, all the bliss, its all one and one is all (Zepplin).
Anyways, take it for what it is...and embrace it all...there are no demons...
"I don't believe in devils,
I don't believe in demons,
I only believe in you,
I only believe in you." AWBH
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Postby poodeeo » Wed Mar 14, 2001 3:10 pm

I wouldn't argue on the point that every moment is eternal. All the emotions you list are the result of the mind's PERCEPTIONS, at every moment. That's all I'm saying. Perception is not knowledge. It is a distortion of true reality, because true perception occurs only in the absence of fear & guilt. Who can do this? There have been many enlightened beings who have broken through, as we know.
The issue, as I see it, is where the mind is in each eternal moment. IMo, the mind is not in the body, the body is IN the mind. The body, and entire external world, are a projection of what's going on in the mind, at every "moment". The perceived changes in the body & world reflect the activity of the mind, not vice versa. A sick body is an effect of a sick mind that made the decision to be sick. To think otherwise is to claim yourself a victim(of the past or future, which are non-extistent.) By the same logic, if your a fearful person, you perceive a fearful world. You wake up in a bad mood, and you think the world is out to get you. You wake up happy, and all you see is a happy world.

Well, time to get some shut-eye. This is a great forum!
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Postby jackalz » Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:31 am

I don't have time at work to fully discuss this, but for now I must ask, how can you know someone else has reached enlightenment, the end of all fear and guilt. Maybe they've just been able to con themselves and other people into believing it, then by the belief get the placibo effect of a temporary happiness, then they believe more, then they categorize everything to perpetuate the belief. So, even though in reality they are still feeling the same thoughts of fear, guilt, they explain it so that it fits into the belief system. I don't know. --but I'm not ready to accept as fact any hypothesis, even though the placibo effect produced could be beneficial. Actually, I'd like to, but my mind has been tricked about this before, that's why I'm skeptical now.
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Postby Seryn » Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:46 am

<font face='Dom Casual'><font color=green>I think a little bit of guilt and a little bit of fear is needed in life. I don't think you achieve peace through not experiencing them, but that it is bad to let it carry you away. But guilt is a way for our consciousness to let us know when we are out of line. The key is to take that guilt and learn from the experience that made us feel this way. That way we can try not to make the same bad mistake. Fear comes in when you want to avoid a bad mistake. If you fear jumping in the car and driving a long distance because you are afraid of a wreck, this fear can be used to help you avoid making mistakes, like looking away from the road while you drive, or getting to tired behind the wheel. Fear just makes you think about how to avoid bad thinks. But fear is bad when you let it keep you from doing something...like driving for a long distance. but it is essential, IMO, to have both guilt and fear to lead a successful and prosperous life. </font id=green></font id='Dom Casual'>
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Postby Tomfoolery » Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
but it is essential, IMO, to have both guilt and fear to lead a successful and prosperous life. [/green]</font id='Dom Casual'>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I disagree, Seryn. Guilt tends to hold one back. Once something has happened (i.e. the past) it can never be changed. IMHO, if you have something that's happened that you feel/felt guilty about, learn from the situation, then "forget" the situation and remember the lesson. Guilt will hold you back. Fear, however, is to be faced and overcame. True courage is NOT the absence of fear, but the overcoming of fear.
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Postby poodeeo » Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font face='Dom Casual'><font color=green>I think a little bit of guilt and a little bit of fear is needed in life. I don't think you achieve peace through not experiencing them, but that it is bad to let it carry you away. But guilt is a way for our consciousness to let us know when we are out of line. The key is to take that guilt and learn from the experience that made us feel this way. That way we can try not to make the same bad mistake. Fear comes in when you want to avoid a bad mistake. If you fear jumping in the car and driving a long distance because you are afraid of a wreck, this fear can be used to help you avoid making mistakes, like looking away from the road while you drive, or getting to tired behind the wheel. Fear just makes you think about how to avoid bad thinks. But fear is bad when you let it keep you from doing something...like driving for a long distance. but it is essential, IMO, to have both guilt and fear to lead a successful and prosperous life. </font id=green></font id='Dom Casual'>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Well, I would 100% whole-heartedly disagree, BUT,that's another topic. You really didn't address my original question...
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Postby jackalz » Thu Mar 15, 2001 11:05 am

poodeeo,
The Question: What does it mean to live in the present moment, not just as it pertains to YES, but in our relationships as a whole?

To me, to live in the present moment is to feel right now what I am feeling. Act as I am acting, Be as I am being. Not to deny any part of that reality.
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Postby poodeeo » Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
poodeeo,
The Question: What does it mean to live in the present moment, not just as it pertains to YES, but in our relationships as a whole?

To me, to live in the present moment is to feel right now what I am feeling. Act as I am acting, Be as I am being. Not to deny any part of that reality.


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Interesting answer. No doubt every moment is a "now", and what we call time is our experience of the nows in a linear fashion. But would you agree, that what you said above is an effect, not a cause?
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Postby jackalz » Thu Mar 15, 2001 11:50 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Interesting answer. No doubt every moment is a "now", and what we call time is our experience of the nows in a linear fashion. But would you agree, that what you said above is an effect, not a cause?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font face='Tempus Sans ITC'><font color=green><b>I would say that it is not just cause or effect of itself, but cause and effect at the same moment, moment, moment, moment, moment.</b></font id=green></font id='Tempus Sans ITC'>
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Postby every1is1 » Fri Mar 16, 2001 12:14 am

Fascinating answers.
However, how can we not be in our "true" reality? Makes me wonder if I'm in my false reality right now...does that make this experience fantasy?
Figuratively speaking, this is a river...and sometimes we get caught in fear and guilt...rapids or eddies in the river...however, it is still the river and we still flow.
It seems that one cannot jump out of the river for they, we are the river.
Also, perhaps we shouldn't think of "now" as separate moments linked together...that is like trying to divide the river up...good luck...I don't think you can pick out any particular drop and say it was separately flowing in the river...the moment is one moment....can you feel it...it hasn't gone anywhere...and we are still here, right now...eternity...kick your shoes off and check it out...all of it...perceptions, your non perceptions, your fear, guilt, your peace and all your striving for nirvana

Its a state of play.
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Postby Seryn » Fri Mar 16, 2001 3:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> IMHO, if you have something that's happened that you feel/felt guilty about, learn from the situation, then "forget" the situation and remember the lesson. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

If you feel guilty about something for even three seconds...you are still experiencing guilt, and that guilt is good, I think. You are exactly right...you need to put the guilt behind you as quickly as you can, BUT do not forget the lesson that the guilt made you realize.

Poodeeo, have you managed to put all guilt and fear aside? As for your original question, to me I believe living in the present moment is not taking the moment for granted and not saying "I can't wait until..." The moment is very important because we never know if the next moment will bring worse times than what we have in the present.



<hr><font color=purple><i>take what I say in a different way, and its easy to say that this is all confusion</i></font id=purple>
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Postby yesman90125 » Fri Mar 16, 2001 10:50 am

since our perception is our own personal reality. we set our selves up to feel guilt to feel fear almost in a mathmatical way .
for example ; if A. happens then in my reality I have worked it out that I am going to think B. do C. and say X.. while in fact it is all an illusion . its all well to say i live in the moment and I am here being NOW.
and I accept whatever happens and deal with it in such an such a way. but really even that is somewhat of a learned response to.
so again our own perception and experiences cause us to act a certin way think a certin way . a person can never be so enlightened that they cannot be more enlightened . so to deal with the question of how can you tell if you or someone is enlightened . you cant .
The Divine Mother States that we never learn so much that we cannot learn more about our own nature and the nature of the divine. so
we just keep trying .
we have some wisdom to guide us
Christ; "A Tree Is Known By Its Fruit." the people saw the works or the divine with their own eyes and still didnt believe. so how can on take that "leap of faith" that one thing really that makes it all better.
how does one completely disolve the Ego?
how does one Break down the illusion of seperation.
the only answer given by alll the Masters
is
step by step.
secure in the knowlage that we are not alone in the struggle. and often oposition to the struggle makes one fight harder. if you didn't feel guilty
you wouldn't want to do anything about it.
if you didn't feel you could progress in inner knowlage you wouldn't bother trying.
following the instincts of the soul seems to be the final disclaimer. if you have any doubt about the path your on perhaps you should re examine it. Christ used the metaphor(or is it an analogy)of"My Fathers House Has Many Doors"
if every day was a sunny day what would a sunny day be?
just another day
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Postby jackalz » Fri Mar 16, 2001 11:07 am

yesman90125 comes through with another thwong of his bass guitar of life.

<hr>Waiting for the moment when the moment has been waiting all the time.
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Postby N2yes » Fri Mar 16, 2001 1:49 pm

The present moment...hmmm...I am there now as I type these words am I not? But, am I really living in it? The answer would have to be a resounding...NO. I am submitting a response to a question via a computer while experiencing none of the world's natural marvels, no true human contact, and no sensation of the vibration of life. I am, in fact, engaged in a temporary, synthetic substitute for conscious stimulation that we here in the west have come to accept as "routine". I am not sure this would qualify as "living in the present moment" according to the blueprint laid out for us by our creator. Nor do I believe we have to stand at the pinnacle of Maslow's hierarchy to be able to recognize the "moment". IMO, you are there when you absolve yourself of all guilt, cleanse yourself of jealousy and resentment and simply breathe in the purity of being. The notion of living in the present moment likely suggest the inevitability of our own mortality as well. This would equate with an increased zeal for life considering the lights could theoretically go out at any moment. I think that upon reflection we would all agree that a vast majority of the day is spent thinking of more pleasurable pursuits. As a result, procrastination silently envelops our lives and we dream of tomorrow while waisting the day...the moment. The thing is, once we recognize this, i think then we can learn to appreciate and subsequently live in and for the present moment.<img src=icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle><font color=teal></font id=teal>
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Postby poodeeo » Sat Mar 17, 2001 2:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Poodeeo, have you managed to put all guilt and fear aside? As for your original question, to me I believe living in the present moment is not taking the moment for granted and not saying "I can't wait until..." The moment is very important because we never know if the next moment will bring worse times than what we have in the present.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

No, I have an ego , like everyone I know. I have the usual special love/hate relationships, where love is conditional, where it depends on another's "doing something" according to what "I want". That is not real love, that's putting a condition on love. I'm afraid of God, His Love, just like all egos are. I'm terrified of His Love, so I do everything I can to distract myself from It; create a world, a body, an ego. My daily goal is to try to transform the special relationships into holy relationships, where my brother is not seen as separate, but one with me. I am my brother. That's the real Truth, but my damn ego gets in the way, all the time. So, a spiritual path is useful to help me practice this Truth.

Talking about "being in the present", an example would be: Let's say a friend comes to you for advice, and as you listen, your mind wanders, thinking about that exam you just took(did I fail?), thinking about what your needing to do later in the day, etc. In this example, your not really "there" in the mind sense, and you've missed the "moment". You may be there in form, but not in thought, which is all there is(spirit). That's why, imo, we have to work at and practice letting go of our fears and guilt; they're what blocks us from true reality.

"You're far too tolerant of mind wandering"
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Postby jackalz » Sat Mar 17, 2001 9:25 am

<font face='Tempus Sans ITC'><font color=green><b>N2yes,
I think you are forgetting that you are experiencing you, the ultimate vibration of life that is available to us to experience. When you focus on how you aren't in the moment, and interfacing with technology and us, you're missing seeing the majesty of God in you and all things, including the non-organic. But IMO, it isn't necessary for you to achieve any special state of awareness, except that you want to, so go for it. But whether you recognize it or not, you are fully experiencing.IMO</b></font id=green></font id='Tempus Sans ITC'>

<hr>Waiting for the moment when the moment has been waiting all the time.
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Postby N2yes » Sat Mar 17, 2001 12:20 pm

Okay Jackalz, I'm open to that. Nicely articulated I might add. I guess I should note that in no way did I mean to downplay my interaction with everyone here. I really do enjoy it immensely though admittedly, a face-to-face discussion would be the ultimate. However, in view of the impossibility of that grandiose fantasy, this forum works just fine and many thanks to Ed for his efforts in that regard. The crux of it for me is that I feel that because we get so caught up in trivial ponderings and their subsequent pursuits, we miss opportunities that sometimes stand before us...silently beckoning. It may be that I'm aiming too high...waiting for the moment when the moment has been,....well, you know.<font color=teal></font id=teal>




Experience everything as it comes true
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Postby every1is1 » Sun Mar 18, 2001 3:42 pm

All I have to say about this is...(everyone sighs..:) here goes another spell of senseless rambling from every1is1...

Everything is real...and
Nothing is not real.
Therefore, everything you think, feel, do, wonder about, contemplate, touch, or imagine has a reality to it, a realness....a "quality" as Phaedrus said. Therefore, everything is a part of reality and holds a special place in the "nowness."
There's no falseness or lack of love in this place.
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Postby poodeeo » Mon Mar 19, 2001 11:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
All I have to say about this is...(everyone sighs..:) here goes another spell of senseless rambling from every1is1...

Everything is real...and
Nothing is not real.
Therefore, everything you think, feel, do, wonder about, contemplate, touch, or imagine has a reality to it, a realness....a "quality" as Phaedrus said. Therefore, everything is a part of reality and holds a special place in the "nowness."
There's no falseness or lack of love in this place.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hmmm...everything is real? Guess it boils down to definitions. Imo, there is one reality, a "Real World", but we don't experience it because we're terrified of it. What terror there is in losing our selves(ego self) and seeing unity in everything. Who do we think we are, Jesus or something?? Come on, we can't be like him!!

Nothing real can be threatened
Nothing unreal exists
Therein lies peace

The dream is alive.
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Postby yesklm » Tue Mar 20, 2001 11:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font face='Tempus Sans ITC'><font color=green><b>N2yes,
I think you are forgetting that you are experiencing you, ...</b></font id=green></font id='Tempus Sans ITC'><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Jackalz, I agree with you totally. In addition, consider that we all are experiencing everything all the time whether the conscious mind realizes it or not. Our internal videocameras are recording our existence for posterity - how all this info will be used is still under speculation! For instance, coma patients,if they revive, often remember things that have happened to them while in coma - although their conscious mind does not seem to be "on" at the time. Another thing to consider is that we live in a polar world where there is hot and cold, night and day, etc. Supposedly (according to recincarnationists) we chose to live this life in order to learn <u>everything</u> under the sun - "good" and "bad" as well. The trick is to realize this is a teaching place and not to succumb to the illusion. Everything happens for a reason, even though that reason may be very obscure to us. A final thought: there are no wrong ways to be or feel or do. We all must go through the learning process. IMO I think we are heading to the point where more of us will become opened and able to see our lives in the proper context ("enlightened"). The past thirty years (gee - do you think Yes had anything to do with this?) has exhibited an explosion of interest in "Who are we and where do we go from here?" This momentum is still continuing.
On a side note,I hope N2Yes can stop feeling guilty about guilt - acknowledge it and see where it fits in your life and go on!
I enjoy reading your responses. You are all so enlightened already, it really lifts me up!

<hr>
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Postby poodeeo » Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font face='Tempus Sans ITC'><font color=green><b>N2yes,
I think you are forgetting that you are experiencing you, ...</b></font id=green></font id='Tempus Sans ITC'><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Jackalz, I agree with you totally. In addition, consider that we all are experiencing everything all the time whether the conscious mind realizes it or not. Our internal videocameras are recording our existence for posterity - how all this info will be used is still under speculation! For instance, coma patients,if they revive, often remember things that have happened to them while in coma - although their conscious mind does not seem to be "on" at the time. Another thing to consider is that we live in a polar world where there is hot and cold, night and day, etc. Supposedly (according to recincarnationists) we chose to live this life in order to learn <u>everything</u> under the sun - "good" and "bad" as well. The trick is to realize this is a teaching place and not to succumb to the illusion. Everything happens for a reason, even though that reason may be very obscure to us. A final thought: there are no wrong ways to be or feel or do. We all must go through the learning process. IMO I think we are heading to the point where more of us will become opened and able to see our lives in the proper context ("enlightened"). The past thirty years (gee - do you think Yes had anything to do with this?) has exhibited an explosion of interest in "Who are we and where do we go from here?" This momentum is still continuing.
On a side note,I hope N2Yes can stop feeling guilty about guilt - acknowledge it and see where it fits in your life and go on!
I enjoy reading your responses. You are all so enlightened already, it really lifts me up!

<hr>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Nice post. You bring up the idea of "scripting", and I agree that we are here to learn; to learn the lessons of forgiveness. But when talking about "good & bad", remember that everything in the physical world is "neutral" in and of itself. WE decide what's good or bad, and that decision depends on which part of our mind does the perceiving, the true Self, or the ego.

The accounts of near death experiences often contain the memory of the person being worked on in the ER, all conversations within the area, even things that went on down the hall. Imo, this reinforces the idea that...

I am not a body, I am free, just as God created me.
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Postby yesklm » Wed Mar 21, 2001 6:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I am not a body, I am free, just as God created me.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Poodeeo, let me give you just one more idea to think about ... I too, believe we are free as God created us, but at the same time we have been given Free Will to create - ourselves, our experiences, yes, script our lives as well. This is not always done consciously. We have bodies for a reason - they are part of the play! Reincarnation states that we don physical bodies in many lifetimes to learn the full extent of what it means to be human - and yes, "bad" (note the quotes!) things happen to "good" people,etc. But this is not a true condition. The true condition is that we eventually return to the Source of Unconditional Love and when we return back to the physical world,we try to bring some of that back with us. It is a long, slow process. I hesitated to use the words "good" and "bad" for exactly the reason you implied.
One of our tasks is to eliminate judgment from our experiences - just allow the experiences to happen. Note how the experiences fit into our lives and learn from them. i.e. I get a pink slip at work. I can feel a wide range of emotion from rage to "who cares" and I can decide what action I may take, from going in to work to "do away" with the perpetrator to taking stock of my abilities and moving on. Yes, we are free but we also have many choices in how we want to star in our own Drama! Thank you for letting me go on (ad infinitum!)
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Postby N2yes » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:00 am

It would seem that my interpretation of what the "present moment" is has been grievously misconstrued. Yesklm, I have no guilt about feeling guilty whatsoever, and admittedly, I am actually rather perplexed as to how you arrived at that conclusion though I trust you meant no harm. My comment about eradicating guilt arose from an observation made by one before me, it was not a novel notion. I simply endeavored to factor into a larger picture those human frailties that keep us tethered to our present situations. Careful scrutiny will reveal a very positive note in my observation, one that encourages a desire to live life to the fullest. Because I have a yearning for a greater appreciation of the natural world does not mean I condemn my connections with the material world. I do, in fact, thirst for human contact in virtually any medium regarding communication and yes,I am convinced the "moment" can be had even during the most ordinary of circumstances. It however, takes the keen mind to recognize it without letting it fade into oblivion. Nevertheless, to me, living in the present moment is not something achieved by the mere flick of a philosophical switch. It just seems more a goal, something to strive for in order to enable the beholder a greater sense of awareness of his or her place in the world. In short...a momentary celebration of living if you will. And, if you are wise, this little "light" can help illuminate a larger path...the path of life itself. That's the way I see it. Now, if you would kindly climb down from your lofty perches and refrain from further analytical dissection at my expense, I for one would appreciate it.
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