The long dreaded sex topic . . .



The long dreaded sex topic . . .

Postby theproffet » Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:32 am

<font color=red>Or perhaps long awaited? <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle></font id=red>

One defining characteristic of progressive rock seems to me to be its reluctance in dealing with lust, rather than love. Oh, there are notable exceptions, like "Rhythm of Love," ELP's "Still . . . You Turn Me On," and other examples, I'm sure. But these are very much exceptions to the rule--by in large, progressive rock, including Yes, doesn't deal with physical love, as opposed to most rock, which deals almost exclusively with it, more or less.

I was reading a post by Dr Yes, a cogent and encompassing definition of prog, and trying to think of other characteristics of the genre. And I think this is one, irregardless of the band: Prog groups don't do "doity" songs, for the most part. Joycean stream of conscienceness, fine; Epic tales of fantasy battles, yeah; Social comment, sure. But prog rock, with it's driving rhythms and orgasmic cressendos seems rather prudish at times--for a genre that found its adherents mostly among teenage males in the 70's. For all my love of Yes, and other prog, I find this disturbing, but practically de rigeur.

I'd like to keep this discussion polite, but still meaningful. For example, the song "Awaken" has very spiritual lyrics, but it's fantastic to make love to . . . "Gates" lasts a bit longer than I do . . . <img src=pix/smileysex5.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>Yes--It's not just for breakfast anymore . . .
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Postby Ed Schaum » Wed Sep 05, 2001 10:00 am

Interesting that you bring this up. ITPO both illustrates and comes close to refuting what you're saying. Damn, they've done it again :)

With: <i>Turn around and come deeper now
what happens when I touch you there
You feel the words roll over you
Think about the fantasies, the memories
</i>

he almost goes there, certainly more openly than anyplace except maybe uhhhh, City of Love (good girls they work the city, good guys they spike you hard).

But he also does it EXACTLY like you're saying, just kinda intimates it, and then gives the "out" by saying "words". Lot's of mist, throw in a little white gauzy stuff for effect, and it's perfect
<img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ya know, now that you mention it, even poor old aqualung and cross eyed mary seemed kinda sweet!

And I know what you mean about Gates...but I never get that far. Somehow the mood vanishes when we pull out the swords and shields for the middle scene
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Postby jackalz » Wed Sep 05, 2001 10:20 am

Without love our dreams (lusts) become illusion. Not much to sing about.

I always thought Trevor Rabin is just joking of Rhythm of Love being about lust. To me it makes more sense taken as song about real love and it's ebbing and flowing.

Now I really like lust, don't get me wrong, as long as it's got a solid base of real love. Not the naughtiness theproffet (the ignorant slut) lives for.

*Jackalz praying that theproffet doesn't find any incriminating quotes from AH*
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Postby chromatic88 » Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:07 am

I always thought a fair bit of the Ladder was about sex:

Lightning Strikes "Shake it up, help me get me some"

To Be Alive "Everybody wants some, everybody wants some to be alive hep yadda"

Thought it was a realization that we are sexual beings. "getting some" is certainly slang for sex.

But maybe I got it all wrong.

Now I am so confused....much like my sex/love life at the moment!!

Peace

Alan B
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Postby N2yes » Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:24 am

<font color=red>I think Jon has simply become quite sophisticated in his lyrical pursuits. Though he does not always endeavor to mask his angle on the sexual, he seems to have a knack for presenting it in such a manner that I question if even the Pope himself would take offense. We used to refer to that as a "smooth operator".</font id=red> <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby Altair » Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:07 pm

I'm surprised to some extent that some of us fail to catch the "truth" behind the lyrics.

The Ladder about sex?!? What, do you think the ladder refers to some long, sexy legs that you climb in order to get some? LOL
Well, you see, it's an "inside" message, and I don't mean "inside" like cutting your cake with my knife (to borrow from ACDC). I mean, either you know the truth, or you don't. If you do, you're on the inside and "in" the light. And, if you don't, you will, oh <img src=pix/icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>, you will! We all awaken eventually and, someday, FINALLY!
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>good guys they spike you hard <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I was wondering why I got so horny when I listened to that song! I'm gonna put it on right now!
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:24 pm

<img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby yesman90125 » Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:39 pm

(ok back on track with a new internet provider)
Well I've said before that I think Jon lyricly paints "love" with a pretty wide brush- in so much as you could really interchange what ever it is, or who ever it is that your in love with with respect to the lyrics . it really leaves the listener open to imagination and interputation. it could be the love of a wife or a soul mate or nature or God. or a teacher a brother a lover a mother .
so really thats one of the things that Jon does that reels you in . he lets you re interput the songs -never mind what he was thinking about when he wrote it- he allows you to put your self in the place of the longing lover or the longed for loved one.
I do think that progressive rock tends to shy away from the sexual act in so much as progressive rock is not only about great playing but lyrics that make you think. I like a good steammy sex song too but it gets to be kind of static ,especially when its what every other song on the radio is about.
C
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Postby massos » Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:10 pm

Well .. maybe we are dealing with two separate topics here. Music you make, or would like to make, love too and music which is overtley about sex. I find that very seldom does the latter put me in the mood
or is it apropriate to make love to. I mean , I would fall about laughing if a girlfriend had put on "Rythmn of love" just as we were about to perform the joyous act! Actually I Also prof I find, personally, that the CD version of TFTGO just about covers my perfomance times; Gates is too short.

One of my fave "prog" groups 10CC and Godley & Creme covered sex on many occasions and often with a wonderful British angsted, self depreciating humour. I have generally found that other forms of music (New Wave, Indie Rock, Opera) have covered the subject more seriously and better.<img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/salook.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Chris2210 » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:43 pm

Maybe you should get into Rainbow or Whitesnake Proff - the musical equivalent of hard porn<img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle>

Perhaps prog scribes see themselves as being <i>above</i> that crudely 'in your pants' stuff and prefer to take a more holistic view of life as they see it, "what's this <b>thing</b> called, love?"<img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Nothing wrong with a bit of honest bump and grind IMO though if that's what the two people (or more) involved are after (or less; let's not exclude onanism), but I will draw the line at sticking with <i>people</i>though<img src=pix/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>).
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Postby Dr_Yes » Wed Sep 05, 2001 7:28 pm

Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I reckon that the band's writing omits a physical sexual level because Anderson and the others strive towards a higher spritual plane. In essence I am reminded of my Tai Chi teacher's views on chakras and the Sanskrit wheel system. As I recall it the chakras correlate to levels of consciousness, body functions, and more. I don't know a lot about it but I remember him telling me that the root chakra situated at the base of the spine was responsible for physicality and elemental earth, and a grounding of the physical body. This type of spiritual awareness isn't really in Anderson's field of vision (IMO) and he is more interested with 'higher' levels of consciousness. The third-eye and crown chakras (six and seven chakra) deal with enlightenment and seeing at a deeper level - consciousness as pure awareness.
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Postby yeskat » Thu Sep 06, 2001 2:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>yesman90125 wrote:</b>
(ok back on track with a new internet provider)
Well I've said before that I think Jon lyricly paints "love" with a pretty wide brush- in so much as you could really interchange what ever it is, or who ever it is that your in love with with respect to the lyrics . it really leaves the listener open to imagination and interputation. it could be the love of a wife or a soul mate or nature or God. or a teacher a brother a lover a mother .
so really thats one of the things that Jon does that reels you in . he lets you re interput the songs -never mind what he was thinking about when he wrote it- he allows you to put your self in the place of the longing lover or the longed for loved one.
I do think that progressive rock tends to shy away from the sexual act in so much as progressive rock is not only about great playing but lyrics that make you think. I like a good steammy sex song too but it gets to be kind of static ,especially when its what every other song on the radio is about.
C
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Agreed, Yesman.
Yes music has always brought about ROMANTIC feelings in me. For me, it is music about LOVE in its deepest, intimate, spiritual sense. However, many times one can relate to the music based on their OWN interpretation. I agree that some of the songs on The Ladder can be taken in a variety of ways by various listeners.
Actually, I find the lack of "bump and grind" lyrics very refreshing!<img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>If I'm ever in "the mood" for that, all I have to do is turn on the radio! <img src=pix/smileysex5.gif border=0 align=middle>~~ (I've always wished for the occasion to use this "smiley"!)
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Postby sound_chaser » Thu Sep 06, 2001 3:19 pm

I honestly couldn't imagine having sex, with Yes as a sound-track. They, like most progressive bands go out of their way, as Prof. rightly observes, to be asexual. Emerson Lake and Palmer would tackle sexual lyrics in a laddish, bull-in-a-china-shop, kind of way. I love their music, but many of their lyrics left a lot to be desired. They were of their time though. Peter Gabriel’s lyrics about The Lamia (The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway), could be viewed as erotic. I wouldn’t have minded slipping into a pool with that three headed beast myself! Not sure I would have liked the consequences, of having to visit Doktor Diaper to have my windscreen wiper removed though! Me and my penis go back a long way! Earlier, on the song Counting Out Time, Gabriel tells the world, “Erogenous zones, I love you, without you, what would a poor boy do?"). Sexual content is there, It's often heavily disguised. The debut album, Airconditioning (1970), by British progressive band, Curved Air, was awash with implied sexuality. Now their lead singer, Sonja Kristina, was sex personified!!! I must admit, I'd imagined those lyrics from The Ladder could be interpreted in a sexual way. Gives a whole new meaning to "C'mon Steve"! I'll leave you with that picture in your mind. LOL!!!

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Postby sound_chaser » Thu Sep 06, 2001 3:22 pm

Damn, I of course meant to say, "I'd never imagined those lyrics.... But there you go!!!

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Postby theproffet » Fri Sep 07, 2001 9:36 am

<font color=blue>Well, Yeskat, I was looking for a good excuse to use that certain emoticon--it always cracks me up!

I think Yesman has really hit the nail on the head, saying that the lyrics are open to all sorts of interpretations. While I see purity and innocence, being a virginal soul, Ed just has a smutty mind. I would have never thought of "Cross-eyed Mary," tsk, tsk, tsk. <img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle>

</font id=blue><img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby Ed Schaum » Fri Sep 07, 2001 9:59 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>theproffet wrote:</b>
<font color=blue> I would have never thought of "Cross-eyed Mary," tsk, tsk, tsk. <img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle>

</font id=blue><img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

gets no kicks from little boys..would rather make it with a letching grey.

And the best line....she's the Robin Hood of Highgate, helps the poor man get along.

Those lines paint some picture <img src=pix/icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Yesmam » Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:39 am

Yes music is sensual, of the senses, not sexual. It's sensual in that when I hear their music I can feel my heart beating, and my spirit lifting. I live near a river and when Jon Anderson sings about water I can relate to the calming, life renewing force that water is. Does this mean that I wouldn't take Jon Anderson down off stage and rip his clothes off if I ever got a chance? Not on your life, a spiritual guy like him is a turn on. He doesn't have to sing about sex, it's just THERE. Now Steve Howe and Chris Squire are a different story. I can imagine someone like Lenny Kravitz playing me like a guitar, but little bitty Steve Howe? I think not. <img src=pix/smileysex5.gif border=0 align=middle> I also, have been wanting a reason to use that smilie!
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Postby Ed Schaum » Fri Sep 07, 2001 8:43 pm

Yesmam,

Deb feels very similar, except with her it's about Chris. She was just fine listening to the music until I took her to a Yes show where we had great seats.

The combination of Chris' over the top showmanship combined with the effect of the low frequencies on her chair reduce her to a quivering mass every time.

Fortunately, I've been able to reap the benefits afterwards with some awaken gentle mass touch.

I only wish I had known what effect those bass frequencies can have on the ladies BEFORE I picked up a guitar.
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Postby yeskat » Sat Sep 08, 2001 3:33 am

Ed,
It's a combo of the bass frequencies AND the Spandex! <img src=pix/luv1.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby N2yes » Sat Sep 08, 2001 7:15 am

<font color=red>Lenny Kravitz?????? C'mon Yesmam...surely you can do better! Lord knows, Burton Cummings could not possibly be flattered by that horrible rendition of "American Woman"...YUCK!!! Of course, this is all just one man's opinion.

</font id=red><img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby Yesmam » Sat Sep 08, 2001 1:08 pm

Yes, N2Yes, Lenny Kravitz! You know, he's done a lot of other songs besides American Woman, give em a listen sometime! <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby N2yes » Sat Sep 08, 2001 1:27 pm

<font color=red>Oh, trust me yesmam, I have. I cited "American Woman" as a result of that one being the only song he's ever done that I would even consider liking but, alas, I just can't bring myself to do it. He does have one thing going for him though. Somehow, he's managed to hook up with John Paul Jones and become rather chummy with him. Life works in mysterious ways so say the mystics ( and others ).

I forgive you though yesmam. Your musical transgression is but a minor scratch on the ear of all that is good in music. Hey, you're a YES fan! That means you're entitled to certain liberties normally denied the rest of humanity.</font id=red><img src=pix/icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby theproffet » Sat Sep 08, 2001 4:07 pm

Hmmm . . . I seen some trends developing. The ladies are opting for either Jon or Chris, and Steve gets nary a mention--he'll have to settle for complements from Moraz! And as Moraz would say, I like the ladies too, but Deb is right, Chris is very sexy. I may have to get some bass pedals and spandex tights myself--I'm not above some appropriation to get attention . . .

So far, none of our gay members have voiced an opinion yet--but I have a feeling they'll go for the keyboardists . . .<img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Lizzie » Sat Sep 08, 2001 7:14 pm

Wait a minute..Steve Howe is a very interesting and talented man...and those fingers. I think he'd be a wonderful lover. If you go shopping by looks alone I think you miss out on the best parts of people. Doesn't hurt them to look good but it is definitely a mind thing for me. I don't go for music during love making..puts you off rhythm. To set the mood or to cuddle afterwards..that's the time for good music. <img src=pix/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Yesmam » Sun Sep 09, 2001 12:33 pm

N2Yes, you have me laughing my ass off right now! <img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle> As for Steve Howe, He DOES have fine hands, but he's so small, I would be afraid to hurt him, and I'm not a large woman. Sex to music can be a dangerous thing,<img src=pix/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> I lived used to live with a guy, and when we moved in together, while we were (breaking the house in), Radar Love was on the radio. I've been married to my husband(different guy) for over 11 years and STILL every time I hear Radar Love I think of that other guy. Strange huh?
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Postby sound_chaser » Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:19 pm

"Love comes to you...and then after..." from Heart Of The Sunrise, sounds like an inference to physical love to me. What do you think?

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Postby Lizzie » Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:50 pm

Hey even in my limited experience I can say without a doubt that it is very hard to break men. They bend and bounce and really are very resillient....poor Steve. I bet he'd be great. <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby N2yes » Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:08 pm

<font color=red>Yesmam, I used to love Golden Earring ( Moontan is such a fine effort ). "Radar Love" rocked me for sure but then (Steppin' into the )"Twilight Zone" hit the air waves and the boys from Holland took me up one more level ( actually, I think the singer, Barry Kooymans{ ck. spelling }was an American ). I was crazy about them. They put on a helluva show as well back in the good ol' daze!

Lizzie, hey I can be broken..."broken in", that is! I am of course, referring to trying novel things...you know, like caviar and lentils and oh, nevermind.</font id=red> <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<font color=red>YES lyrics are all ( well, almost all ) about love and spirituality. The former, as I mentioned earlier, is often cleverly and I think sometimes sincerely, delivered in deep, passionate wording, but, surely we cannot deny the physical aspects. Afterall, they account for the primary reason for our being here. This very point has not been lost on Jon I can assure you. </font id=red><img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby Ed Schaum » Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>N2yes wrote:</b>

<font color=red> surely we cannot deny the physical aspects. After all, they account for the primary reason for our being here. This very point has not been lost on Jon I can assure you. </font id=red><img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You're right:
"All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you"
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