Holy Rollers and Music: Less Crap--More Filling



Postby ycantibu » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:17 pm

How was that decided?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Megalodon wrote:</b>
However, Laws from the ten commandments still apply except for the sabbath. Also, laws regarding love for God and neighbor still apply more than ever.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

<hr>you can't drink on an eight hour flight, pass out, and then go onstage...well you can, but then you're spandau ballet. - robert smith of the cure
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Postby tardistraveler » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:53 pm

Good question, ycantibu. How did the coming of Jesus fulfill some of the law, but not all of it?

I tend to think that what Jesus taught superceded the Jewish law - he was a reformist trying to teach the bottom line - love. And if you think about it, if you always act in love, there's really no need for the other laws, is there?
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Postby YesJo » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:18 am

What sense does it make to throw out the inconvient laws but hold onto the laws we still like, for example the homosexual one.

Seems to me, if you take one thing literally in that old testament , you need to take it all literally. How do you know which ones to abide by and which ones to throw out? Is it what the pastor says, or the christian school you go to?

Seems to me that Jesus brought a new way, or so they say in church, so why not look at the new testament more, and the old testament less. I don't remember Jesus saying anything about homosexuality being an admonination or that we should stone anyone for doing "wrong" He wants us to be kind and forgive each other, not judge.

"Love the lord with all your heart and soul, and treat others as you'd treat yourself" That's the law. Why do we have to get so nit picky.

Ray, loved your letters, so good, so much sense in them!
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Postby tribute1969 » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:26 am

<b><font face=Tahoma><font color=red>ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE.....

IT WAS (ABOUT) 40 YEARS AGO TODAY THAT THE BEATLES
CAME TO AMERICA...AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER WERE
DECLARED "MORE POPULAR THAN JESUS".....BY
JOHN THE DISCIPLE, I MEAN BEATLE.......

LET IT BE.....</font id=red></font id=Tahoma></b>
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Postby guilddigger » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:35 am

<font face='Comic Sans MS'>jesus wasn't the first and not the last of great prophets. actually the teachings and ideas of his were already a couple of hundred years old when he was around.
the dead sea scrolls, that were found in cumran about fifty years ago, have now been fully translated. they speak of another person who lived before jesus and who taught the same things.
remember that jesus was gone for many years before he returned to jerusalem a grown man. where had he been during those years and what had he learned and from who?





</font id='Comic Sans MS'>

<hr>stay awaken
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Postby tardistraveler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>tribute1969 wrote:</b>
<b><font face=Tahoma><font color=red>ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE.....

IT WAS (ABOUT) 40 YEARS AGO TODAY THAT THE BEATLES
CAME TO AMERICA...AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER WERE
DECLARED "MORE POPULAR THAN JESUS".....BY
JOHN THE DISCIPLE, I MEAN BEATLE.......

LET IT BE.....</font id=red></font id=Tahoma></b>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>


Oh, my - I DO remember the furor over THAT one here in Nashville. One of the local stations refused to play the Beatles anymore - bizarre stuff that.

But The Beatles did have it right - all you need is love - Jesus taught "Love one another".

Anyone read the latest from Mel Gibson where he's concerned that his wife will go to Hell because she's not Catholic? Guess a LOT of us will be there - maybe we can just turn the place into a big party! LOL
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Postby Megalodon » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:58 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>tardistraveler wrote:</b>


Anyone read the latest from Mel Gibson where he's concerned that his wife will go to Hell because she's not Catholic? Guess a LOT of us will be there - maybe we can just turn the place into a big party! LOL
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
<img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle> I'll bring the keg!!
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Postby gatesofdeliriumcrasher » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:29 am

Several of you have congratulated me on "those great letters and posts". Well, I don't want to be (accidentally) labeled a plagiarist. I got those from various sites on the web.

Ray

<hr>Must we dismantle Democracy here at home just to export it overseas?
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Postby gatesofdeliriumcrasher » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:33 am

On somewhat of a related note to this thread, I just got this e-mail today (yes, I am on the ACLU mailing list).

From: Matt Howes, National Internet Organizer, ACLU
To: ACLU Action Network Members
Date: February 11, 2004

1) Stop the Radical Religious Right from Amending the U.S. Constitution
2) Urge Congress to Oppose Overreaching and Punitive Crime Laws

Spurred by the recent Massachusetts State Supreme Court decision against discrimination, the Bush Administration and some members of the radical religious right are aggressively campaigning to amend the U.S. Constitution to deny the right to marry to same-sex couples in committed relationships. Just today, the Bush Administration signaled that the President will endorse this mean-spirited measure.

The Massachusetts ruling recognized that gay and lesbian Americans serve in our military, keep our communities safe as firefighters and police officers, staff our hospitals, build our cities and pay taxes. The Massachusetts court ruled that the state cannot deny to gay couples the same marital legal rights in pensions, health insurance, hospital visitations and inheritance that other committed couples enjoy.

The radical religious right wants to write intolerance into the U.S. Constitution and forbid equality to these citizens. As a nation we have periodically struggled with the question of marriage -- the last law prohibiting people from different races from marrying was overturned only 35 years ago -- but we have never taken the step of amending the Constitution to define marriage. Revising the Constitution to incorporate discrimination is wrong and should be rejected.

Take Action! Urge your Members of Congress to reject efforts to write discrimination into the Constitution!

Click here for more information and to send free faxes to your Members of Congress:

http://www.aclu.org/LesbianGayRights/Le ... 9977&c=101


2) Urge Congress to Oppose Overreaching and Punitive Crime Laws

Less than 18 months after the Senate passed rational and balanced federal juvenile justice legislation, two Senators have introduced a new punitive bill that would expand the use of the death penalty and create new ill-defined crimes.

Under this proposed legislation, people could be convicted and sentenced to death for ill-defined illegal "participation" in a "gang," which could be as few as three people. The law's loose definitions and expansion of the death penalty would increase the probability that people are wrongly convicted and possibly even convicted.

This legislation would interfere with the right to a fair trial. Astounding as it sounds, this measure could also allow people to be given felony convictions for hanging out with people who later go out and commit a crime.

Take Action! Tell your Senators to oppose this punitive and irrational legislation.

Click here for more information and to send a free fax to your Senators:

http://www.aclu.org/CriminalJustice/Cri ... 14925&c=15


*****************************************************
For more information on other issues and the latest news, please visit our website at http://www.aclu.org

Help Strengthen the ACLU's Voice in Congress... Click below to become a card-carrying Member or donate today!
http://www.aclu.org/contribute/contribu ... ORGID=AA02

If you are not already on our mailing list and would like to
subscribe to the ACLU Action Network Updates, click http://www.aclu.org/team/member.cfm

To find out what more you can do to protect your civil liberties, please visit http://www.aclu.org/action


<hr>Must we dismantle Democracy here at home just to export it overseas?
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Postby Megalodon » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:20 am

Ray, I can see where you are coming from, but I think we are to avoid political issues on this board, if I remember right.
I am neutral when it comes to these issues anyway. If I wan't
to know whats right and wrong, I go to the Bible for answers, not
human governments. This is what I believe in, I'm not saying you
have to as well.. The Bible sais "I well know, O Jehovah(Lord),
that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong
to man who is walking even to direct his step". (Jeremiah 10:23).
That is why I don't put my trust in human governments to solve
the problems that face mankind, as the test of time has proved
that we (humans) cannot run the world right independant of God.
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Postby tardistraveler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:37 am

I think Ray was raising the issue that sometimes people try to play politics in the name of "religion" - which does apply to the topic here, I think.
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Postby relayer4u » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:41 am

<font color=blue>Can't any one let this thread die the ugly death it deserves?

I have never skipped reading so many posts here before. Ughhhh!</font id=blue>


(Insert barfing smiley here)

<hr><font color=blue>Ray C.</font id=blue> <img src=pix/icon_yes_fish3b.gif border=0 align=middle>

<font color=red>"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."</font id=red>
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Postby gatesofdeliriumcrasher » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>tardistraveler wrote:</b>
I think Ray was raising the issue that sometimes people try to play politics in the name of "religion" - which does apply to the topic here, I think.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>You are pretty close. Actually, my point was that people, especially our elected officials, shouldn't try to parlay their religious views into political issues. Remember, this country was founded on the basic idea of seperation of church and state. Marriage is a legally binding CIVIL union, though many people like to bring religion into it. That's all we (the gay & lesbian community want), but let's not turn this into a discussion on THAT subject, because we'd get nowhere real fast!

Ray

<hr>Must we dismantle Democracy here at home just to export it overseas?
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Postby YesJo » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Megalodon wrote:</b>
Ray, I can see where you are coming from, but I think we are to avoid political issues on this board, if I remember right.
I am neutral when it comes to these issues anyway. If I wan't
to know whats right and wrong, I go to the Bible for answers, not
human governments. This is what I believe in, I'm not saying you
have to as well.. The Bible sais "I well know, O Jehovah(Lord),
that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong
to man who is walking even to direct his step". (Jeremiah 10:23).
That is why I don't put my trust in human governments to solve
the problems that face mankind, as the test of time has proved
that we (humans) cannot run the world right independant of God.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I don't put my trust in the govt. either, that's why we have to stand up for our own rights and make sure the government doesn't take over our personal freedoms. I don't think God wants us to stand back and do nothing when the government wants to make unfair changes to our lives. We are allowed to think.

Thanks for the info Ray, I'll be sure to check it all out, gays and lesbians should have the exact same rights as every other person in this country, as should all of us.
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Postby yesireebob » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:12 pm

Unfortunately, religion and politics have become hopelessly intertwined. The whole "moral majority" phenomena, with politians beholden to right-wing fundamentalists who want to dictate how the rest of us should live. It's kinda scary to think that someone who believes that the second coming of Christ is approaching via Armeggedon(sp?) in the Middle East can influence (or make) the decision to go to war there. Evil doers, indeed. Ok, enough about politics and religion. But Gates, thanks for the great posts, it's nice to see a message of tolerance on this thread.

BTW, re those missing years of Christ, check out the novel "Lamb, The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal," by Christopher Moore. It is irreverant and funny, but also heartfelt and well-researched. Tells the tale of Jesus and his pal travelling to Persia, China, and India to find the three wise men who attended his birth, Balthasar, Gaspar, Melchior, and studying Buddhism and Hinduism. In his Afterward, the author notes, "This story is not and never was meant to challenge anyone's faith; however, if one's faith can be shaken by stories in a humorous novel, one may have a bit more praying to do."
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Postby theproffet » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:01 pm

Hmmm . . .

<hr><font color=blue>"Clutching red ribbons, from a badge, but he didn't look his age . . ." </font id=blue>
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Postby tardistraveler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>relayer4u wrote:</b>
<font color=blue>Can't any one let this thread die the ugly death it deserves?

I have never skipped reading so many posts here before. Ughhhh!</font id=blue>


(Insert barfing smiley here)

<hr><font color=blue>Ray C.</font id=blue> <img src=pix/icon_yes_fish3b.gif border=0 align=middle>

<font color=red>"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."</font id=red>


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>


Did we get too serious for you, Ray?

Found this one in a joke I received yesterday

EVANGELIST: When you rearrange the letters: EVIL'S AGENT

Thought that was interesting! LOL


And Bob - thanks for the info about the book - sounds like a funny one!
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Postby tribute1969 » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:08 am

<b><font face='Comic Sans MS'><font color=red>EVERYTHING STILL RELATES BACK TO YES:
Through the religious inspiration this thread has provided me I have "discovered" that YES "lifted/sampled" bibical references and music....

"DON'T KILL THE WHALE"....by JONAH (JONah)
(especially with ME still inside....DIG IT DIG IT)</font id=red></font id='Comic Sans MS'></b>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>relayer4u wrote:</b>
<font color=blue>Can't any one let this thread die the ugly death it deserves?

I have never skipped reading so many posts here before. Ughhhh!</font id=blue>


(Insert barfing smiley here)

<hr><font color=blue>Ray C.</font id=blue> <img src=pix/icon_yes_fish3b.gif border=0 align=middle>

<font color=red>"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."</font id=red>


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
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Postby jackalz » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:51 am

Relayer4u,

<font color=red>"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."</font id=red>
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Postby relayer4u » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>jackalz wrote:</b>
Relayer4u,

<font color=red>"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."</font id=red>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

<font color=blue>Still, I like playing "Imagine" alot as well...</font id=blue>

<img src=pix/angel.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr><font color=blue>Ray C.</font id=blue> <img src=pix/icon_yes_fish3b.gif border=0 align=middle>

<font color=red>"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."</font id=red>
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Postby tribute1969 » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:47 am

<b><font face=Tahoma><font color=red>AMAZING GRACE!
I BOUGHT "IMAGINE"
8 TRACK AT GGODWILL, I MEAN
GOODWILL THIS SUNDAY!! $1

OK,
"THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP FALSE IDOLS!"
ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT POLLUTE THE
AIR AND SOUND......V'ROOM, V'ROOM...
<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~dacltgki43d3/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/lords.jpg" border=0>
<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~dacltgki43d3/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/passionracing.jpg" border=0></font id=red></font id=Tahoma></b>
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Postby YesJo » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:42 am

Maybe that's why I'm frightened of the Nascar culture?
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Postby tardistraveler » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:18 pm

Racing for Jesus?

Wonder what Jesus would really think about the commericalization of his name?

And if those guys are the "lords of Nascarnation", I'm glad I don't live there!
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Postby tribute1969 » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:49 pm

<b><font face=Tahoma><font color=red>TODAY is the DAY!
PASSION "opens"...should be a blast....

OK, here's my "entry" in attempting
to become a "LORD" of NASCARNATION.....

"Sometimes, You Just Have To Say...WHAT THE F**K!"
Risky Business....
<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~dacltgki43d3/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/nolan4.jpg" border=0>

A "TRIBUTE" to "JESUS CHRIST" and a "SUPERSTAR"...
hey, you got to have "sponsors"..it's the NASCAR way...
JUST WAIT until you see my "backup" car....</font id=red></font id=Tahoma></b>
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Postby tardistraveler » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:55 pm

And Tribute, the sunglasses are PERFECT for NASCAR!

Looks like you're got all bases covered with your sponsors! LOL
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Postby tardistraveler » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:24 am

I just saw this article in my copy of InfoWorld here at work, and laughed so hard everyone could hear me across the room!


Receiving His Word Via Text Message

Need divine intervention on the go? You may be out of luck. Finnish company Mobile G Host last week shut off its service that provided text messages from Jesus in response to users' prayers. The company came under fire from Finland's mobile-services watchdog group less than a month after it began the service. Is God's love free? Maybe. The $1.52-per-message charge could have been for long-distance roaming.
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Postby YesJo » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:42 am

So who is going to see the Passion? I was going to , but than too many fundamentalist types have been saying we "have" to go, it's our duty and now I'm thinking, why? Mel Gibson did the movie, not God, plus I'm beginning to think Mel is a little insane if not alot. Any thoughts???
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Postby ycantibu » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:04 am

Not I. Aside from the fact that the whole Jesus story doesn't interest me, I've heard nothing positive about it. As a matter of fact, the last review I heard for it called it a 2 hour snuff film. I just can't get into 2 straight hours of gore and torture.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>YesJo wrote:</b>
So who is going to see the Passion? I was going to , but than too many fundamentalist types have been saying we "have" to go, it's our duty and now I'm thinking, why? Mel Gibson did the movie, not God, plus I'm beginning to think Mel is a little insane if not alot. Any thoughts???
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

<hr>you can't drink on an eight hour flight, pass out, and then go onstage...well you can, but then you're spandau ballet. - robert smith of the cure
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Postby tardistraveler » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:53 am

Just saw this link that ycantibu posted on another site, and thought it would fit in right here! Check out the sex link - some pretty humorous points are made! Thanks Y for posting - glad I saw it!



http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
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Postby yesireebob » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:50 pm

Nope. I'm with you, Jo, too many sanctimonious types way too anxious to bring along everyone too see the "truth." And all the ranting about critics being anti-Christian. It is so tiresome.
Besides, this whole "truth" angle is a joke. Even assuming Gibson was faithful to the gospel, which he was not, how accurate is the gospel itself? The gospels were written by people -- people living in a particular place, time and culture,influenced by the institutions and politics of their day. They not were written until between 30 and 70 years, depending on the gospel, after Christ died, plenty of time for revisionist political agendas to flavor them. And they have been handed down via translated versions, translated and re-translated,into Greek, Latin, English, etc., and through the many versions of the evolving languages themselves. Consider how much American history, all 200 years of it, has been revised ad nauseum as cultural attitudes has changed. People argue about the truth of recent events that were caught on film. Filming an accurate rendition of an event 2,000 years and half a world away -- gee! with subtitles, how authentic! -- is kind of like trying to paint a picture of the deepest bottom of the ocean from your perspective in a glass-bottom boat on the surface -- at night.
Besides, if you are going to do a story about Christ, why not emphasize his teachings (note the use of parables rather than literal factiods) rather than the brutality of his death? Do we, as a culture, miss the spectacle of public executions that much?
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