Same-Sex "UNIONS"



Same-Sex "UNIONS"

Postby topographic_drama1980 » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:18 am

I hope that this doesn't start any tempers flaring like the majorly-heated presidential thread, but what our your thoughts on gay marriage?

First off, I seriously get pissed off when it's called "gay-marriage," only because these people are getting singled out because of their sexually. I believe in same-sex marriages or "unions" as they are pathetically called. I know that there are tons of people in this world who can't stand homosexuals and I believe that the reason why those people don't like homosexuals are because they're homophobic. They are afraid that just because a person is gay, a person of the same sex will try to make sexual advances towards them. I find it really sad in a country that supposedly celebrates democracy and diversity that our own dear President is TOTALLY against same-sex marriages. Think of me what you will but I believe he is a bigot and a fascist homophobic jerk. I know Kerry didn't totally agree with it, but he would have been willing to legalize it.

Another thing I get really flamed about is when a lot of these hardcore Christians (keep in mind that I am not trying to bash any religion here) think of this as an "evil practice!" I find that to be very hateful and very un-Christian like. I thought God and Jesus supposedly loved everybody. I just hate it when a lot of people have to bring religion to it. We are all God's children and God loves us all unconditionally.

I hope that homosexuals can sometime in the near future have the same rights as everyone else in this country and in this world, period.

IMHO, I don't think it's anyone else's business if two gay men or two gay women want to get married. Who is to judge love? If they want to get married, then they should have that right. It's just like it's none of our business what goes on in their bedrooms, just like other people's sexlives are none of my business. I just wish that people would stop hating homosexuals. They're just like you and me. They breathe the same air and bleed the same blood and have feelings just like anyone else. If I'm rambling on, please excuse me, but I am just sick of all the hate, all the fascism, all the racism, and all the terrorist bullshit going on this world.

If I offended anyone, which I hope I didn't, I am sorry. Opinions are totally welcome.
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Postby ImstillYesmam » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:10 am

I live in Ohio, which was one of the states that passed the Amendment defining marriage. I voted against the amendment because I don't believe that I'm so stupid that I need the government to tell me what the definition of marriage is. BTW the definition of marriage is a state recognized "union" between a man and woman,,,,according to the state of Ohio. I have know many people who were "married" for years and years and they didn't have what I would define as a marriage. A loving caring relationship based on trust, understanding and respect. The government also packaged this amendment as the SAME SEX MARRIAGE amendment in order to play on peoples fears and bigotries of gays. This amendment does not only affect gays, it affects everyone who is in a relationship that doesn't meet the definition of marriage as set down by the government. Any 2 people who live together will not have the same rights as people who are "married". If a couple lives together for 30 years and there is a life threatening illness, the partner will have no rights in the decision making process. A lot of people who voted for this amendment say that all you have to do is make a "living will" and/or make the partner the benificiary of the estate and that will clear things up. Not so,,,,what these ppl forget is that if the "family" contests the will/wishes/desires of the ailing/dying/dead partner, then the law is on there side. Not to mention the controversy this amendment has had over child support, insurance and health benefits.

As for gay couples in marital relationships, I believe that all people in our country should share the same rights. Call it gay marriage or gay union, it doesn't matter to me. I have never in my life felt threatened, insecure, afraid or intimidated by gay people, I have a some in my life that I love dearly. When I'm hanging out with them it is always a source of amazment to me that they can take the "looks", "comments", and "attitudes" of people who don't agree with their life with such grace and humor.
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Postby Terry Shea » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:25 am

topographic_drama1980 wrote:I hope that this doesn't start any tempers flaring like the majorly-heated presidential thread, but what our your thoughts on gay marriage?

First off, I seriously get pissed off when it's called "gay-marriage," only because these people are getting singled out because of their sexually. I believe in same-sex marriages or "unions" as they are pathetically called. I know that there are tons of people in this world who can't stand homosexuals and I believe that the reason why those people don't like homosexuals are because they're homophobic. They are afraid that just because a person is gay, a person of the same sex will try to make sexual advances towards them. I find it really sad in a country that supposedly celebrates democracy and diversity that our own dear President is TOTALLY against same-sex marriages. Think of me what you will but I believe he is a bigot and a fascist homophobic jerk. I know Kerry didn't totally agree with it, but he would have been willing to legalize it.

Another thing I get really flamed about is when a lot of these hardcore Christians (keep in mind that I am not trying to bash any religion here) think of this as an "evil practice!" I find that to be very hateful and very un-Christian like. I thought God and Jesus supposedly loved everybody. I just hate it when a lot of people have to bring religion to it. We are all God's children and God loves us all unconditionally.

I hope that homosexuals can sometime in the near future have the same rights as everyone else in this country and in this world, period.

IMHO, I don't think it's anyone else's business if two gay men or two gay women want to get married. Who is to judge love? If they want to get married, then they should have that right. It's just like it's none of our business what goes on in their bedrooms, just like other people's sexlives are none of my business. I just wish that people would stop hating homosexuals. They're just like you and me. They breathe the same air and bleed the same blood and have feelings just like anyone else. If I'm rambling on, please excuse me, but I am just sick of all the hate, all the fascism, all the racism, and all the terrorist bullshit going on this world.

If I offended anyone, which I hope I didn't, I am sorry. Opinions are totally welcome.

Why should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry? What's the point? Marriage is a Biblical union dating back thousands of years. It's an oath taken between a man and a woman for the purpose bringing children into the world and raising a family. Why has this become such an issue now? It hasn't been a problem for thousands of years.

Homosexuals have the same rights everyone else has. If a male wants to get married, find a female to get married to. Calling this a discriminatory practice is ludicrous. What if I want to marry my sister (or my brother for that matter)? Why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? What if I want to marry more than one person? Shouldn't I be allowed to do that? What if I want to marry an animal? Shouldn't I be allowed to do that? Where does this madness end? Why do homosexuals think they should get preferred status over other sexually deviant groups? Why do homosexuals get outraged when these same comparisons are brought up?

Why do you call the president a homophobic jerk? Most likely because you're a liberal and name-calling and insults are the only tools you have to argue with, right (that point was made very clear in the Bush-bashing thread)? I guess I must be a "homophobic jerk" too then, which I find quite strange because I've never been afraid of homosexuals and I've never had a problem with the homsexuals I work with. I guess a vast majority of people in the 11 states (out of 11 states where bills were on the ballot) which passed bills outlawing gay marriage must be homophobic jerks too! Actually, I think homosexuals might very well be heterophobic, but they're too afraid to admit it and it isn't politically correct to say such things.

Why is it that liberals always seem to support democracy and the concept of majority rule unless they find themselves on the minority side of an issue in which case they whine and cry like a baby and hurl insults (such as homophobe) at the vast majority of people in this country simply because they disagree with them? I don't get it. A vote was taken in 11 states and homosexual marriage was outlawed by a wide margin in all 11 states. If such a vote had come up in all 50 states, homoseuxal marriage would have been outlawed in all 50 states. Actually it's already outlawed in most of these states by definition. In Michigan for example the state constitution already had marriage defined as between a man and a woman, but gay groups were pressuring the state to change it so a petition was circulated to put it on the ballot. All this did was cost the state and other groups millions of dollars to put a proposal on the ballot that was actually a redundancy.

If I offended anyone, I'm sorry, but that's how I see this.
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Postby tardistraveler » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:36 pm

Terry Shea wrote:Why should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry? What's the point?



The point is, these people want the same legal rights as any other married couple. If this were just about living together and having sex, I don't know that it would be such a big deal. It's not. It's about allowing your partner the same rights and benefits of a married couple - the right to inherit, the right to make decisions on behalf of an ill partner, the right to tax deductions allowed married people, etc.
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Postby topographic_drama1980 » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:08 pm

tardistraveler wrote:The point is, these people want the same legal rights as any other married couple. If this were just about living together and having sex, I don't know that it would be such a big deal. It's not. It's about allowing your partner the same rights and benefits of a married couple - the right to inherit, the right to make decisions on behalf of an ill partner, the right to tax deductions allowed married people, etc.


My thoughts exactly, Diane. Very well put. IMHO, calling Bush a fascist or homophobe isn't really name-calling. You can't argue with the truth.
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Postby Terry Shea » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:14 am

tardistraveler wrote:The point is, these people want the same legal rights as any other married couple. If this were just about living together and having sex, I don't know that it would be such a big deal. It's not. It's about allowing your partner the same rights and benefits of a married couple - the right to inherit, the right to make decisions on behalf of an ill partner, the right to tax deductions allowed married people, etc.
Ah, I see. They want to stick the rest of us taxpayers and have us pay for their benefits. Why can't their partner just go out and get a job with benefits? It's not like he has to stay home and take care of the kids. Hey, I've got an idea! Let's push this thing through and then I can say I'm a homosexual and get married to another male and live off from his benefits and quit my job! It's not like I'd actually have to have sex with him. Nobody would know the difference. ;)
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Postby Terry Shea » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:19 am

topographic_drama1980 wrote:My thoughts exactly, Diane. Very well put. IMHO, calling Bush a fascist or homophobe isn't really name-calling. You can't argue with the truth.
You called him and a vast majority of people in this country homophobic. You called him and a vast majority of people in this country bigots! Have you no shame? Do you really think these insults help your cause? They don't. Why don't you try using logic, reason and facts to make your points instead of using such childish and inane insults. Or is your argument so weak you don't have any?
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:14 am

Terry Shea wrote:Why should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry? What's the point? Marriage is a Biblical union dating back thousands of years. It's an oath taken between a man and a woman for the purpose bringing children into the world and raising a family. Why has this become such an issue now? It hasn't been a problem for thousands of years.


Even though I am gay, I agree with you 100%. Marriage is a biblical union, and if not a biblical union, one where the rules of any religion recognize marriage as a union between a man and a woman. The cliched "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" is more than appropriate in this case. I also feel that allowing gay marriage is stepping all over territory where it doesn't belong. Religious folk have been following the rules and values of their Korans, Bibles, and whatever religious guides religious people have read for years (NOT! But let's say they have for the sake of argument). In some cases you can re-write the rules, but not in this case. Religious people have already come to accept divorce as a normal part of life, even though that's just as "sinful" as homosexuality. The last thing they need is one more thing. If the rules of major league baseball suddenly changed to requiring 5 strikes to result in an out, there would be national outcry, much like in this gay marriage situation. The rules of marriage are the rules of religion, something some people hold dear to their hearts.

Terry Shea wrote:Homosexuals have the same rights everyone else has. If a male wants to get married, find a female to get married to.


Consider if things were the other way around and gay marriage was allowed, but there was no union or marriage whatsoever for straight people. If your heart told you that you wanted to be with a woman, yet you knew you wouldn't get the same rights or treatment, would you marry a man instead?

I know the answer to your question. Gays don't want a legally recognized union just so they can get on their partners health care plan.

Terry Shea wrote:Actually, I think homosexuals might very well be heterophobic


Most of my friends are straight. My best friend is straight. I've dated men who are half-straight. I don't hang around gay-oriented clubs or bars as I feel the crowd is too exclusive to one type of person. I have no problem with straight people, religious or not, or their sexual practices. I just don't like closed-minded straight people.

Terry Shea wrote:Ah, I see. They want to stick the rest of us taxpayers and have us pay for their benefits.


In a lot of cases, one married partner will have a job that offers a comprehensive healthcare plan for the family, either payed for completely or partially by the employer. Or, one partner will just have a better and more affordable health care plan than their partner, which if I may add is payed for by either the employer or the employee. Nobody wants to stick you, Terry. I sure don't.

I have worked full-time since I've graduated high school. I haven't been to college, which has resulted in some struggling (especially at this point in my life) but I'm alive and well and despite some financial difficulties I truly feel I'm at a good place in my life. If I met a man who I fell in love with who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, who just so happened to have a great health care package at work which could include immediate family, I don't see why I SHOULDN'T be allowed to go on it. You make it sound as though us gays are looking for a handout or something. Not the case, my friend. I don't take handouts. Sure, there may be some gays out there who want to marry into money and leach off a spouse of the same sex, but that also happens in straight marriages as well.

It sounds like the thought of gay marriage really angers you. I can only ask, are you against the thought of two gay people who are in love and want to have the same kind of legal, official union that straight people do or are you more worried about changing the definition of what marriage is? If you paid attention to what John Kerry was saying, he also didn't support gay marriage. However, he was very much for a cival union allowed between two gay people.

You may say that you work with gay people and their presence doesn't offend you. However, the fact that you implied that we want to leach off straight people indicates SOME animosity towards gays in general from you.

My boss is a devoit christian and republican, so of course our political and moral views clash. I am not "out" at work for that very reason. She thinks that gays are disgusting and their ways of lives are as dispicable as dispicable gets, and the comments she makes really hurt my feelings sometimes. She's not only against gay marriage, but gay unions as well. She also thinks that all homosexuals should go to religious rehabilitation camps (which do exist, and NEVER work I may add). It makes me feel as though I am less of a person for something which I can't control. It also makes me feel as though a higher creater doesn't love me.

I just don't understand why it shouldn't be allowed, or abortion, or other "immoral" practices. If they could find some kind of fair resolution to the gay marriage issue (which would be a legal, civil union in which gays would have the same rights as a married couple), then everybody can practice what they believe in freely, and nobody would need to pay attention to anybody else's business.

Terry, I don't know if you're married or not, if not, consider this. Your wife, who you've loved dearly for years and was not only a lover and mother of your kids but your best friend too, was dying a long, slow, painful death from cancer. You've stuck through it all with her through the long struggle for her life, and she's losing it fast and is now in the hospital. She's got minutes to live, and you want to be by her side until the end. You know, do what any human should be allowed to do with their beloved partner, hold their hand and say their last words. One catch. You aren't allowed in her room.

Sound fair?
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Postby Roan's Lady » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:42 am

Outstanding, Eric. Wish there were millions like you.









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Postby tardistraveler » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:43 pm

Eric, I had several things in mind to say after Terry's post, but YOU said them all, and said them FAR BETTER. There needs to be more people like you in this world. :)
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Postby The Ancient » Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:18 pm

...didn't he just call us all a bunch of MFs before promising to go away again after the holidays?
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Postby tardistraveler » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:34 pm

Ah, Mike, that's just his affectionate term for us! ;)
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An interesting piece of information..........

Postby Gary » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:50 pm

"Homosexual households had an average income of $55,400 compared with a national average of $36,500" Lee Badget, PhD.
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Postby ycantibu » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:25 pm

Kinda like everyone has to do with heterosexual marriages, huh?


[quote="Terry Shea"]Ah, I see. They want to stick the rest of us taxpayers and have us pay for their benefits. Why can't their partner just go out and get a job with benefits? It's not like he has to stay home and take care of the kids. Hey, I've got an idea! Let's push this thing through and then I can say I'm a homosexual and get married to another male and live off from his benefits and quit my job! It's not like I'd actually have to have sex with him. Nobody would know the difference. ]
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Postby ycantibu » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:39 pm

Why do gays wanna marry? Well, why do heteros wanna marry?? Marriage may seem biblical to you, but here's the problem...the government decided to get involved many moons ago. Nowadays, it is very much a secular and civil situation. Just as a P.S., I'm pretty sure there were marriage rituals before the bible. BTW, are you seriously asking why someone would be offended if they were compared to a sheep shagger?



Terry Shea wrote:Why should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry? What's the point? Marriage is a Biblical union dating back thousands of years. It's an oath taken between a man and a woman for the purpose bringing children into the world and raising a family. Why has this become such an issue now? It hasn't been a problem for thousands of years.

Homosexuals have the same rights everyone else has. If a male wants to get married, find a female to get married to. Calling this a discriminatory practice is ludicrous. What if I want to marry my sister (or my brother for that matter)? Why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? What if I want to marry more than one person? Shouldn't I be allowed to do that? What if I want to marry an animal? Shouldn't I be allowed to do that? Where does this madness end? Why do homosexuals think they should get preferred status over other sexually deviant groups? Why do homosexuals get outraged when these same comparisons are brought up?

Why do you call the president a homophobic jerk? Most likely because you're a liberal and name-calling and insults are the only tools you have to argue with, right (that point was made very clear in the Bush-bashing thread)? I guess I must be a "homophobic jerk" too then, which I find quite strange because I've never been afraid of homosexuals and I've never had a problem with the homsexuals I work with. I guess a vast majority of people in the 11 states (out of 11 states where bills were on the ballot) which passed bills outlawing gay marriage must be homophobic jerks too! Actually, I think homosexuals might very well be heterophobic, but they're too afraid to admit it and it isn't politically correct to say such things.

Why is it that liberals always seem to support democracy and the concept of majority rule unless they find themselves on the minority side of an issue in which case they whine and cry like a baby and hurl insults (such as homophobe) at the vast majority of people in this country simply because they disagree with them? I don't get it. A vote was taken in 11 states and homosexual marriage was outlawed by a wide margin in all 11 states. If such a vote had come up in all 50 states, homoseuxal marriage would have been outlawed in all 50 states. Actually it's already outlawed in most of these states by definition. In Michigan for example the state constitution already had marriage defined as between a man and a woman, but gay groups were pressuring the state to change it so a petition was circulated to put it on the ballot. All this did was cost the state and other groups millions of dollars to put a proposal on the ballot that was actually a redundancy.

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Postby topographic_drama1980 » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:58 pm

Gary wrote:"Homosexual households had an average income of $55,400 compared with a national average of $36,500" Lee Badget, PhD.


Now, what's wrong with this picture? Hmmm... well, nothing at all!!! That is very interesting, Gary. Where did that come from?
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Would you introduce your kids to Eric?

Postby BE » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:58 pm

[quote="Roan's Lady"][color=Indigo]Outstanding, Eric. Wish there were millions like you.

So RL,you wish there were millions of gay people that: use very expliced and vulgar language,are insulting to others on this site,alcohol and drug abusers,cant hold a job..boldy,triumphantly and proudly posts that he has Chlamymdia and describes his gay sex life in graphic and often nauseating detail......and never gets edited or banned!

Outstanding..a great role model Mom!

Hey at least Erics a YesHead and understands and agrees on the marriage issue!
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Postby BE » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:23 am

Gary wrote:"Homosexual households had an average income of $55,400 compared with a national average of $36,500" Lee Badget, PhD.



Yeah,but the average gay union only lasts 18 months.Another reason not to have it called a marriage!
A marriage is between one man/one women period! Anything else is a union: 2 men,2 women or 1man/2women,2men/1 woman,1man/his sister,1man/his dog or how about 3 men and a baby!...get the picture why it will never be called a marriage!.. Everyone will want "rights for their partner"!!!

Question: Why is a gay women called a lesbian and a gay man a homosexual? Are they not both homosexual?
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Postby topographic_drama1980 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:27 am

BE wrote:Yeah,but the average gay union only lasts 18 months.Another reason not to have it called a marriage!
A marriage is between one man/one women period! Anything else is a union: 2 men,2 women or 1man/2women,2men/1 woman,1man/his sister,1man/his dog or how about 3 men and a baby!...get the picture why it will never be called a marriage!.. Everyone will want "rights for their partner"!!!

Question: Why is a gay women called a lesbian and a gay man a homosexual? Are they not both homosexual?



I actually have heard the term "homosexual woman" before. But either way, I don't have a problem with it and neither does my fiancee.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:56 am

BE wrote:
Roan's Lady wrote:[color=Indigo]Outstanding, Eric. Wish there were millions like you.

So RL,you wish there were millions of gay people that: use very expliced and vulgar language,are insulting to others on this site,alcohol and drug abusers,cant hold a job..boldy,triumphantly and proudly posts that he has Chlamymdia and describes his gay sex life in graphic and often nauseating detail......and never gets edited or banned!

Outstanding..a great role model Mom!

Hey at least Erics a YesHead and understands and agrees on the marriage issue!
Would I introduce my kid to Eric, you ask?
You bet I would.
After meeting him, hanging out, and especially reading his latest post in this thread, no doubt.

Hey BE, I'd even introduce my kid to you! Which reminds me, you never got back to me about meeting up for a cup of coffee. I'll buy. You know how to reach me. ]
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Great post Topographic_Drama80

Postby BE » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:25 am

T_D80,
You said alot and I will try to answer only a bit of it and hopefully not get to heavy or offend anyone!
God and his son Jesus Christ dont hate homosexuals,they hate the sins they commit!God created and loves us all,but he didnt create homosexuality.He created us to love and serve him and follow his and Jesus'teachings...He despises sin and in his eyes all sin is evil,but equal.There are many forms of sin including: stealing,cheating,lying,murder(inc.abortion),taking Gods name in vain or as Eric states "immoral acts" such as:homosexual,adultrey,lusting,etc.

Christians are followers of Christ,so we must obey his teachings.So the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner" is appropriate.God will forgive all sins ...if we ask for forgiveness and change our evil ways!

There is no firm evidence that we are born with or develop a gay gene!..I believe it is an acquired livestyle that takes time to develop and it can beome an addiction.Like alcohol,drugs,sex,porn,food or even Yes.We give it a try,like it,want more,hang with the crowd,visit the same clubs/bars/chats,want much more,learn and live the lifestyle and sooner or later you are hooked and love it!.....But like any addiction(sin) it CAN be cured(forgiven) if YOU want to!......Problem is like most sins we like it and dont want to stop and there are 'Tears in Heaven"
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Postby yesireebob » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:59 am

So, BE, exactly when did you chose to be heterosexual? Do you really think that people choose a lifestyle that is difficult at best, wherein they are spurned, reviled, insulted, denied fundamental rights, and most egregiously of all, "forgiven" by pompous, self-righteous Christians? Right.
I have always been blessed with having very dear gay friends, and I have always made it a point to have my son around them, from the time he was a very small child. I did not want him to grow up to be a homophobe. When he was about 5, I had a gay couple come spend the weekend from out of state, and before they arrived, I explained to my son that although usually a couple is usually comprised of a man and a woman, sometimes men fall in love with other men and women fall in love with other women, and that is ok and normal, too. He accepted it just fine. Now at 17, he is still fine spending time around my gay friends. And he is not gay. Neither am I. It's just not catching. Most of the gay people I know are either in stable relationships, or looking for a stable relationship. Unless they are young and sowing wild oats. Just like heterosexuals. Over 50% of all marriages, including amongst Christians, end in divorce. And guess what, it's not because of gay marriage. If you want to "protect" marriage, then maybe you should be lobbying to make divorce illegal. As for marriage itself, I think this should be left up to the church. There are churches that sanction gay marriages. A church should not be forced to sanction it, but neither should a church be prevented from doing so. And in any case, gay civil unions ought to respected so that their loved ones can enjoy all the benefits and privileges that heterosexual spouses enjoy. Gee Terry, lots of women become homemakers upon getting married, are they taxpayer burdens, too? Why should someone be denied benefits just because of their sexual orientation? And lets not forget that at one time the whole concept of interracial marriage was as horrifying to the mostly bigoted majority as gay marriage is to the mostly homophobic majority now. But democracy is not about majority rule, it is about protecting EVERYONE's rights. If left to the majority, we would still have segregated schools, and interracial marriage would still be illegal. Brown v. Board of Education, without that little piece of judicial "activism" where would we be now. You can pass all the legislation you want, but if it does not hold constitutional muster, it will be repealed in the end. Thank god for our independant judiciary, who still struggle to apply the Constitution to ALL members of society, and not just to the majority and their special interest groups. I can tolerate the intolerance of the BEs and Terrys because I know given time, their view will not prevail. Like it or not, we are evolving toward a very broad tolerance toward homosexuality. And it's about time. Just as with women's suffrage at the turn of the century and the civil rights movement in the 60's, this latest backlash only shows how threatening some still find it.
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Hey BE

Postby EricBliss12345 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:44 am

"Yeah,but the average gay union only lasts 18 months.Another reason not to have it called a marriage!" -BE

Actually, this is yet ANOTHER reason that we should have gay unions! Think about all the gay couples who DO stay together for years who deserve a justified union. I agree, for some reason gay relationships just do not last long and I can't figure out why. The handful of times I really made an effort at keeping a relationship going, it failed. I think it has something to do with the nature of my personality, very much absorbed in playing and listening to music, and the fact that I'm kind of quirky. LOL

Take my aunt for example, who is a lesbian. She's never dated much, but she has had several long term relationships. My entire childhood, and even up until my very early 20's, I thought that her lifelong "roomate" Drew was just that, a roomate! They were together at LEAST 10 years and I do know that they were friends in high school. My mom knew I was gay when I was 16, yet she didn't let me know about my gay aunt until I was 20! Weird huh?

Guess what else she didn't tell me? I'll start at the beginning. When I was 3, 4 years old, I had a kitty I loved named Mickey, who was an outside cat. Even though I was really young I can remember one day I was calling him outside all day, and he never came home. At the end of the day, my mother sat me down and told me "Honey, I'm sorry but Mickey ran away. Mickey still loves you but sometimes kitties need to be outside and on their own."

Fast-forward to my porch at our new house, when I'm 20-some years old. Me, my mom, and the neighbor were talking on the porch about our pet cats (my old neighbors back home were also cat lovers) and I told the story about how sad I was when my beloved kitty Mickey ran away.

My mother then started smiling. Then she started cracking up, and laughed so hard that she split the ass of her pants. It probably would have split anyways, because she has a huge, cellulite-laden ass. Just kidding. My mom's cute. :) I said "Mom, what the fuck is so funny? My kitty ran away!"

"Oh my God honey. I never told you?"

"Told me what?"

"Well.....honey, um. Wow, um, your dad, it was an accident! He came home from work, and Mickey, well....your dad ran Mickey over!"

To be continued. I'm ditching out of this thread now that I'm not pissed. I got more to say though. BE, watch your ass 'cause I'm comin' back with a vengeance! LOL Just joshing. Say what you want, no hard feelings.
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Postby BE » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:04 am

Some great,interesting and funny stories there Eric,thanks for sharing....and pretty clean too!

Life does have its many loops,twists and turns.I believe you have taken many roads and had a few mishaps...I pray your future journeys will be smoother calmer and safer....Merry Christmas and a better,blessed New Year!.....now bring on the vengeance!
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Postby ycantibu » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:49 am

How do you know how long the average gay union lasts? With the hetero divorce rate so high and the way so many heteros sleep around, I don't even know why that's relevant.


BE wrote:Yeah,but the average gay union only lasts 18 months.Another reason not to have it called a marriage!
A marriage is between one man/one women period! Anything else is a union: 2 men,2 women or 1man/2women,2men/1 woman,1man/his sister,1man/his dog or how about 3 men and a baby!...get the picture why it will never be called a marriage!.. Everyone will want "rights for their partner"!!!

Question: Why is a gay women called a lesbian and a gay man a homosexual? Are they not both homosexual?
you can't drink on an eight hour flight, pass out, and then go onstage...well you can, but then you're spandau ballet. - robert smith of the cure
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Postby Gary » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:46 pm

topographic_drama1980 wrote:Now, what's wrong with this picture? Hmmm... well, nothing at all!!! That is very interesting, Gary. Where did that come from?

I had remembered hearing something like this a few years back, and Terry's words of (paraphrasing here....) "them living off of the rest of us" sparked the memory, and just seemed wrong. I did an internet search and found the quote. I can't swear to the 100% accuracy of the figures, but I just wanted to present the idea.

I also just wanted to add that I think Terry's comments about one person in the couple living off of the rest of us is a bit strange. I believe that that person would be living off of his or her partner, exactly the same as a stay at home mom or dad.

While there was much in Terry's post (actually the whole post) that I disagreed with, this was the only thing that concerned me as it was clearly misinformed. If someone is worried about people living off of the rest of us, you need not look further than all of those heterosexual couples having multiple children while on public assitance long term.
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Postby Gary » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:58 pm

BE stated:

"God and his son Jesus Christ dont hate homosexuals,they hate the sins they commit!God created and loves us all,but he didnt create homosexuality.He created us to love and serve him and follow his and Jesus'teachings...He despises sin and in his eyes all sin is evil,but equal.There are many forms of sin including: stealing,cheating,lying,murder(inc.abortion),"


HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLEY KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE ??? Please, don't tell me that it's true because the bible says it's so. The bible is a man made document and for that reason alone, it should be looked at with intense scrutiny.

I know, I know.............a completely different topic, but, again, religion is brought into something where it doesn't belong. There is no supreme religion above all others. There many religions prior to the invention of christianity, and there will be many created after.
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Postby Gary » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:12 pm

Thank you Yesireebob for your eloquent post. As someone who is in a multi racial marriage, with a bi-racial son (bi-religion as well), I had all of the same thoughts while reading BE's and Terry's posts. I didn't speak to my parents for almost 3 years because of my marriage. They only came around after my son was born. I'm appaled that this knid of thinking still exists, whether it be race, religion, or anything. People always think that your doing something to them ("live off of the rest of us" or "you're only doing it to hurt us"), rather than just see that your only living your own life and that it has absolutely nothing to do with theirs.

I still can't comprehend how John and Charles legally being joined can have any effect on my life.
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Postby topographic_drama1980 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:57 pm

Two men or two women being married to each other doesn't affect me one bit. It just makes me happy that two people who are in love with each other, no matter what sexuality they are, are happy to be together. The only way it affects me is in a good way, it makes me happy to see them happy. Just like interracial marriages. I've mostly seen black men with white women and very rarely do I see a black woman with a white man, but either way, it's none of my business. THEY ARE JUST PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND I. If they're happy, I'm happy.

This is one of the main reasons I hate when a lot of groups (especially religious) get into big, heavy, heated debates about this. If you think about it, it's not that much different than a black and white marriage, which I am all for as well and also a regular marriage.

I don't think there are many pig-fuckers or people that wanna marry any other kind of animal. I know that there are some people that wanna marry their siblings (If you watch Jerry Springer, you know damn well what I'm talking about!). All that shit so far off from the subject (and yes, I'm referring to Terry's post), it's insane. It's like oil and water. They don't mix. Everyone knows you can't marry a sheep or a pig or a cow and you damn sure can't marry a part of your family, no matter if a girl thinks her brother is hot or vice versa, so all that is rather irrelevant.

As for the bit where God don't hate homosexuals, just the sins they commit, no offense to you, BE, but I find that to be totally WRONG! WE ARE ALL SINNERS!!! WE ALL SIN ALL THE TIME!!!!. Hell, I'm sinning right now by smoking a cigarette. No offense to anyone but I just hate it when some people bring God into the situation when it has nothing to do with Him. It has to do with two people of the same sex who want to have the same rights as the rest of the 260,000,000 here in America, or any other country, two people of the same gender who want get married and be happy with each other. I don't think there is any harm in that. It doesn't affect me in any bad way.


CELEBRATE DIVERSITY AND ERASE THE HATE AND BIGOTRY!!!


Oh, and matter what anyone says, this is the truth:

PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS AFRAID OF WHAT'S DIFFERENT.

And Gary, this part of your post really touched me and I agree with you 110% and always have agreed with this:

(Gary wrote :) I'm appaled that this kind of thinking still exists, whether it be race, religion, or anything. People always think that your doing something to them ("live off of the rest of us" or "you're only doing it to hurt us"), rather than just see that your only living your own life and that it has absolutely nothing to do with theirs.

I still can't comprehend how John and Charles legally being joined can have any effect on my life.
Ascend and Create!
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Postby tardistraveler » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:24 pm

topographic_drama1980 wrote:IEveryone knows you can't marry a sheep or a pig or a cow and you damn sure can't marry a part of your family, no matter if a girl thinks her brother is hot or vice versa, so all that is rather irrelevant.



Not that I'm advocating bestiality, but it struck me that this is the same argument that some use against GAY marriage - "everyone knows that you can't marry your own sex . . ." et al . . .

I can understand legal restrictions against marrying people who are close relatives, due to the risk of genetic malformations in the children. But, I'm sure there ARE people out there who fool around with their family, whether it's legally sanctioned or not. Ditto animals.

If gay unions are sanctioned, does that open another can of worms? What about multiple-partner relationships?

Just some musings - for the record, I DO support gay unions. I also feel that people's sex lives should be no one's business but their own, unless it's causing harm to another being.
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