Terri Schindler-Schiavo



Terri Schindler-Schiavo

Postby Roan's Lady » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:09 pm

Unless I'm misinterpreting or don't yet have all the facts, the news that her feeding tube was removed is simply horrific, and I cannot for the life of me understand it, unless she was suffering terribly. Doctors are saying there is a chance that she can be rehabilitated in some ways. She has some awareness and responsiveness, and is technically not in a vegetative state. There was no written directive for this to occur. I read somewhere about the "fine line" between removal of "life support" and removal of life-sustaining nutrients. Is this for real?? This is nothing short of murder - cruel and calculating at that! Apparently her "husband" has a girlfriend and has fathered two children since this tragic saga began. My heart aches for Terri and her family. Again, perhaps, I'm misinformed, or I don't know the entire story. Convince me that willfully and purposefully ending her life is justifiable! :mad:
hope's as high as the sun today...
~moon safari
Roan's Lady

User avatar
 
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: The Magical Land of Buttered Rolls

Postby yesman90125 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:05 pm

Roan's Lady wrote:Unless I'm misinterpreting or don't yet have all the facts, the news that her feeding tube was removed is simply horrific, and I cannot for the life of me understand it, unless she was suffering terribly. Doctors are saying there is a chance that she can be rehabilitated in some ways. She has some awareness and responsiveness, and is technically not in a vegetative state. There was no written directive for this to occur. I read somewhere about the "fine line" between removal of "life support" and removal of life-sustaining nutrients. Is this for real?? This is nothing short of murder - cruel and calculating at that! Apparently her "husband" has a girlfriend and has fathered two children since this tragic saga began. My heart aches for Terri and her family. Again, perhaps, I'm misinformed, or I don't know the entire story. Convince me that willfully and purposefully ending her life is justifiable! :mad:
This has been the main topic of discussion around my house and among my circle of <NON Cyber>Friends . I have heard some people argue , that she was brain dead, and others argue that she had about the awarenes of a !or 2 year old . the one thing I guess is that she was being fed
well little children need to be fed , I just got through feeding my 1 year old grandaughter a few minutes ago. so -I've heard the argument that what ;somebody, wants to do is stop feeding her -well thats not what any ought to be done in that case -if she is infact brain dead thats another story .Ive been involved in 4 "Pull the plug " stuations. One I had to make the decision .

I just checked out abc news and they showed this Woman she is definately not in a coma or brain dead
she should be in an institution and kept alive
NOT STARVED TO DEATH

I cant believe this whole situation
a judge actually ordered the feeding tube removed
Murder
yesman90125

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:00 pm

Postby psychopomp95 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:47 pm

I'm sickened by it... I hope you folks in the U.S. remember that one of the things Hitler did in the 1930's was convince people that killing retarded/disabled folks was the "humane" thing to do. If that seems extreme, well sorry, but it's a parallel all the same! Someone has basically gone and told Michael Schiavo that he can do the same...
It sickens me, too... I don't even wanna talk about it.
psychopomp95

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Postby The Ancient » Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:15 pm

I was told that the footage of her looking around (?) on ABC was spliced from many years of nothing but blank stares, and after all these years that's been about the only time she seemed to be alive at all. I just hope that what I heard is true, that her cerebral cortex does not function and she feels nothing. The husband spent years training himself as a coma nurse/therapist. He was offerred a large sum of money to transfer guardianship and could walk away many times but has refused. It sounds like he has kept the faith for a very long time. She got this way because of a self-induced anorexic collapse. She did not have a living will/power of attorney arrangement which commonly contains specific instructions regarding one's wishes if they end up in a situation like this. I suspect Ms. Schiavo has been gone for a long time, but that does not change the promise made for better or worse, in sickness and in health. Mrs. Ancient and I have power of attorney/living trusts and all of our friends and family know exactly what our wishes are if an unthinkable situation like this happens to one or the both of us. We made the in sickness and in health promise to each other, but we also understand that they can keep you alive long after you are gone so we made another promise to each other and our family: if I/we are brain-dead, the other should order comfort measures only. No feeding tubes, no respirators, no diapers, no lawyers, no bankruptcy, no TV cameras, no despair. It is our choice.
The Ancient

Charter Member
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:28 am
Location: Austin, Texas USA

Postby tribute1969 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:14 pm

Everyone should go re-read what "The Ancient's" have to say and follow their lead.... to avoid anything like this "situation" from every happening to you or your loved ones......and since the main "loved ones" in Terri's life so dramatically disagree about her "care and arrangements" coupled the absence of any pre-planning agreements I think the tube should stay in and her family-mother, father, brother should be allowed to continue with her "care"......
But it looks like "an act of Congress" will help decide for them all.....
WAR IS OVER! IF YOU WANT IT!
John and Yoko Ono Lennon-1969
WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT SPIRIT HERE SINCE 1969...
Hotel California
tribute1969

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 3935
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: CTTE of Nashville, TN

Postby psychopomp95 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:58 am

How is she brain-dead if she can still smile and laugh, and OBVIOUSLY acknowledges people??
psychopomp95

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Postby relayer4u » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:50 am

Roan's Lady wrote:Unless I'm misinterpreting or don't yet have all the facts, the news that her feeding tube was removed is simply horrific, and I cannot for the life of me understand it, unless she was suffering terribly. Doctors are saying there is a chance that she can be rehabilitated in some ways. She has some awareness and responsiveness, and is technically not in a vegetative state. There was no written directive for this to occur. I read somewhere about the "fine line" between removal of "life support" and removal of life-sustaining nutrients. Is this for real?? This is nothing short of murder - cruel and calculating at that! Apparently her "husband" has a girlfriend and has fathered two children since this tragic saga began. My heart aches for Terri and her family. Again, perhaps, I'm misinformed, or I don't know the entire story. Convince me that willfully and purposefully ending her life is justifiable! :mad:
While I dearly appreciate life, I must say that this woman has been in the same state for near on 15 years. You mention that her husband has a girl and two new kids like he was having some kind of affair. 15 years is a long time and hope can't sustain for ever. I don't know all of the details for sure, but he claims they talked about what to do, and I gather he is trying to keep her wishes. It's not about him gaining a divorce or any of that, as there are laws that provide for the disaloution of a union when one party becomes incapacitated.

From what I can gather, the only story is a husband trying to comply with what his wife spoke of and a mother unwilling to give up hope.

anyway you cut it, a sad tale.
Ray C. [:f3]

"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."
relayer4u

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 10:21 am
Location: The Wild West

Postby psychopomp95 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:09 am

It IS a sad tale, but if the husband doesn't want to care for her anymore, why won't he sign away custody to her parents, who obviously are very willing to care for her??
I don't think this is a question of 'recovery', so to speak - I doubt she'll ever gain much more awareness than she already has. But she is NOT dead! She is still very much alive, and with that being established, she is still able to be a big part of her parents' lives. It is NONE of anyone else's business to say whether she is 'aware' or not - it doesn't really make a difference. Aware or not (and I say she is), she IS still in there somewhere.
psychopomp95

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

This was my post in the Same Sex Union thread:

Postby Gary » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:01 pm

[size=134]Watch Out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like you don't have to be gay in order to not have the rights granted to married folks any longer. Anyone following the saga of that poor woman being kept alive by the feeding tube. The husband, who should have the legal rights is being fought by the parents, who don't have the legal right to choose.

So far their have been 2 previous trials....both won by the husband, but the government (congress) feels it's their place to intervene. In the first trial it was proven and decided that this is not what the patient would have wanted. At the second trial, it was shown and decided that the patient will never make any steps towards improvemant.

Now this is supposed to be a local (state) issue that the government should have no say in. This is setting an extreme precident that could have far reaching ramifications once the lawyers get their theeth into it regarding any future discrepancies between spouses and others.

I've heard it mentioned, that not only should patients sign DNR (Do Not Resusitate) orders, but they should also spell out clearly that the don't want any form of life support, including feeding and breathing, etc. Can you imagine that it has come to this? My wife and I can have a conversation, and trust that the other will carry out the wishes....then an in-law can step in and take away the married couple's right of choice.[/size]

After reading the above posts, and keeping my own feelings completely out of this, I'd like to address some of what was written.......

About the husband signing over guardianship......it was decided in court already that husband and wife had many discussions leading to the decision that this is not what she would have wanted. If this is the case, the husband is trying to abide by his wifes wishes. How many times have you stated this to your significant other? I know we all have. How many of you documented that conversation that you had in the car or watching the news?

3 neurologists testified that there is no responsive brain function and that she is in a vegetative state. What we have seen, is reflexive function. And, like stated before, the film we've seen is pieced together, and it is the same segment of film over and over again. We're not seeing film from 10 years ago, then 8, then 5, then 2.....showing improvement. The neurologists, who have no emotional ties, stated that she does not respond via recognition to any stimuli. The family has an emotional tie (completely understandable and I am not minimizing this) and they are misinterpreting her reflexes. Like pet owners stating that their dog smiles when it is anatomically impossible (no, I'm not comparing the patient to an animal). The family is holding onto hope, out of their love for her, for something that is not going to happen.

This is a tragedy and my heart feels for all the people involved. I was involved in the decision making process with my ex-mother-in-law. She was very sick with cancer and wanted to die at home. When my father-in-law found her unresponsive, he paniced and dailed 911. They put her on a ventilator in the hospital. When he realized what he had done, it took a letter writing campain to take her off the vent. My ex-wife couldn't do it. We had to convince her that this is not what her mother had wanted. She felt, that by agreeing, that she was going to be responsible for her mother's death. She eventually made the decision and it took some time for her to see that it was the right thing to do.

My thoughts:
Death is final....and very scarey. But, we all have our needs and desires. I hope that I'll have someone fighting for me if something happens. I guess I better put it in writing.


<!-- / message -->
Gary

Charter Member
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby tardistraveler » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:24 pm

Yes, that may be the lesson for ALL of us here - put our wishes in writing.

But, apparently Terri DIDN'T do that, so, who decides what is the right thing? Technically, her husband should have the legal right. However, her parents disagree with his decision, and in a matter of life and death, who's to say that they shouldn't have a say in this?

It would be nice if they ALL could come to a decision together - that they could all live with. Apparently this hasn't happened, so now it's in court. It's very sad.

I could voice my opinion here about what should be done, but MY opinion is irrelevant. I just hope that a decision can be brought about that's the best for all concerned.

I've been thinking about my OWN wishes since this case made the news, and it's really hard to decide at what point you would want treatment to stop. But, I'll keep thinking on it, and get something in writing ultimately, to spare J.J. an agonizing decision someday. I had to make that decision for both of my parents, and it was very hard. In those cases, my decision was to do what could be done with drugs and therapies, but to not resuscitate if their hearts stopped.

My heart goes out to Terri and her family, and I hope they can all find some peace.
tardistraveler

User avatar
 
Posts: 6904
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:17 am
Location: Nashville, TN, USA.

Postby in2yes » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:04 pm

I, for one, do not consider the way this woman is living, living. I would like to think if she were the least bit aware, each time the food is hooked up to her tube, she would show signs of distress, if indeed she did not want to be kept alive in this manner. Apparently, she is not capable of doing this, or she does indeed want to be lept alive.
I watched a friend feed herself in this manner for months and it is not pretty!! The mental anguish she endured was heartbreaking to witness. She did it for her family with hopes of recovering, but alas she did not win that fight. Granted, my friend had cancer, she fought a long and hard battle, the last year of her life showed steady decline. She spent the last days of her life in a drug induced sleep, self requested. Did she commit suicide?? I do not think so. I think she helped herself and ended her suffering. This, however is not quite the same situation.
I also helped administer the morphine to my mother in law in the last weeks of her life. When she absolutely stopped taking food, then liquids, if she woke up we gave her more medicine. We did not kill her, but we did take away her consiousness. She did not have to suffer the mental anguish of being helpless. We kept her comfortable. She also had terminal cancer, but did sign a DNR. She was very specific as to her wishes, we had DNR signs all over the house, so there would not be any misunderstandings if the paramedics were called in. This too, is was a completely different situation, than Terri's.
I've always thought I supported euthenasia. After these two instances in my life, I do support it. How many times have you talked about this to someone when you've heard of a situation like this? Yes, the key is to write it down!! I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was for these two people in my life to take charge of their lives in death. They were both under hospice care.
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not really addressing whether she should be put back on the feedings or who should have custody of her welfare, I just really have a problem with the President becoming involved. I about fell out of my chair when I read the paper!! Does it have to go that far??
Should it go that far. I think not. But it has. So, like Gary says.... watch out! Big brother is watching!!!
"...whatever thought you have, can become a new dream..."
in2yes

Charter Member
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 11:10 pm
Location: USA.

Postby yesman90125 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:27 am

relayer4u wrote:While I dearly appreciate life, I must say that this woman has been in the same state for near on 15 years. You mention that her husband has a girl and two new kids like he was having some kind of affair. 15 years is a long time and hope can't sustain for ever. I don't know all of the details for sure, but he claims they talked about what to do, and I gather he is trying to keep her wishes. It's not about him gaining a divorce or any of that, as there are laws that provide for the disaloution of a union when one party becomes incapacitated.

From what I can gather, the only story is a husband trying to comply with what his wife spoke of and a mother unwilling to give up hope.

anyway you cut it, a sad tale.
I only saw the ABC footage and read bits of the story
some people argue that that footage that made her look very retarded
but alert and smiling . was very tainted
I dont know enough to know one way or another
but I can respect the guys point that brain dead or severly retarded
they can no longer function as husband an wife
and even under those circumstances
he can still care very deeply for her welfare

the suit for divorce as I understand it comes from her parents

but maybe ther's more to it than what i read in the news

either way I think a point does come when somebody you love is pretty much unable to recognise you or respond to you
where you do have to move on with your life for the sake of your own sanity
and if as Ray Says they had allready discussed it prior to whats going on
as I have with my family
how they would want to have things handled

then if he's following mutually agreed apon directives

this is allways hard and unfortunate

personally when I can no longer live life or experience the prescence of my fellow humans
nor take care of my self
nor be alive were it not for artificial means
and this situation went on and degraded

I definately want the plug pulled

the ABC footage was very convincing
(i found it at ABC.Com the first day this thread appeared )
that she was much more aware than we are being led to believe
and again -under those circumstances
I still dont have aproblem with the husband moving on
and living some kind of life
yesman90125

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:00 pm

Postby yesman90125 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:39 am

in2yes wrote:I, for one, do not consider the way this woman is living, living. I would like to think if she were the least bit aware, each time the food is hooked up to her tube, she would show signs of distress, if indeed she did not want to be kept alive in this manner. Apparently, she is not capable of doing this, or she does indeed want to be lept alive.
I watched a friend feed herself in this manner for months and it is not pretty!! The mental anguish she endured was heartbreaking to witness. She did it for her family with hopes of recovering, but alas she did not win that fight. Granted, my friend had cancer, she fought a long and hard battle, the last year of her life showed steady decline. She spent the last days of her life in a drug induced sleep, self requested. Did she commit suicide?? I do not think so. I think she helped herself and ended her suffering. This, however is not quite the same situation.
I also helped administer the morphine to my mother in law in the last weeks of her life. When she absolutely stopped taking food, then liquids, if she woke up we gave her more medicine. We did not kill her, but we did take away her consiousness. She did not have to suffer the mental anguish of being helpless. We kept her comfortable. She also had terminal cancer, but did sign a DNR. She was very specific as to her wishes, we had DNR signs all over the house, so there would not be any misunderstandings if the paramedics were called in. This too, is was a completely different situation, than Terri's.
I've always thought I supported euthenasia. After these two instances in my life, I do support it. How many times have you talked about this to someone when you've heard of a situation like this? Yes, the key is to write it down!! I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was for these two people in my life to take charge of their lives in death. They were both under hospice care.
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not really addressing whether she should be put back on the feedings or who should have custody of her welfare, I just really have a problem with the President becoming involved. I about fell out of my chair when I read the paper!! Does it have to go that far??
Should it go that far. I think not. But it has. So, like Gary says.... watch out! Big brother is watching!!!

I have gone through many of the above sets of circumstances that you descibed including giving my mom more morphine everytime she woke up
I can sure agree with you
]and most of all agree that THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDNT GET INVOLVED
I dont care if I stay on life support for awhile while my family takes time to consider the descision with my doctors and get second opinions etc

but in the end this descision should not be made without wishes I leave behind , and the consideration between my family and my doctor.
in the end I know that all thosee responsible know exactly what I want and al want the same things too
because they have all gone through the same stuff you and I have Intoyes
yesman90125

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:00 pm

There is so much more to consider!

Postby BE » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:34 am

No one here has mentioned that the husband was awarded over $1million in a settlement with the hospital that mishandled Terri originally!(what else is in that settlement)?

When did her husband Michael announce Terri had request No life support? A month into the coma(vegetative state)? Months,a year or years after he had another woman and 2 kids??? This is very mportant to know!
Why will he not allow any tests,Cat scans,Mri,etc.

If he truly wants to move on, Michael should let go! If there is nothing in writing then its only his word. Terris' parents are willing to incur all future care,expenses and their time,so let them.....Who truly loves her?

Since no one could deceide I guess it needed to go to the US Congress....but yet it will come down to one judge and how he feels...is this right?

It is a very very difficult and painful situation for all parties involved
....everyone loses something here!

God will take her when he is ready to bring her home.
***Visit Yesstuff4u on Ebay***
BE

User avatar
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:16 am
Location: Stanhope,NJ USA

Postby wild_westie » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:38 pm

As of today, her feeding tube remains removed. Her parents are now appealing this decision. I can't imagine how her parents must feel with the guards at the hospital watching them. They aren't even allowed to give her ice. I feel so much sorrow for her parents. This is all a tough call. The doctors say she can't feel pain. I hope and pray if that if the decision is made to keep the feeding tube out, she will die peacefully. :(

wild_westie

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1873
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:00 pm

Postby psychopomp95 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:35 am

I think the point is being missed. This is NOT about "the right to die" (although the fact that the Republicans are turning it into this annoys the hell out of me, but what else should we expect from politicians?) - this is about proof that she really would have wanted to die if she ever ended up in a state like this in the first place! Since there IS no proof, no way in hell should her ex-husband have the right to pull the plug on her.
I'm the last one to say life and death is a black-and-white issue, but in terms of the legal aspect, it should remain so! If she still has a pulse, then she IS still alive, and no one, except for her, should have the right to let her die (unless they had her written permission). And anyways, if it's really true that she feels no pain, how the hell does she apparently respond to various ailments that have afflicted her in the past 15 years? Letting her die would be very cruel.

Oh, and Gary, you make some interesting points about the precedent this sets if they don't let her (ex-)husband do as he desires - maybe you're right, but IMO it's a MUCH more dangerous precedent if a judge rules that someone can end your life without your written consent. That borders on permissable murder!
I still say, much like BE does: if he doesn't want to support her anymore, fine, but why won't he let her parents have custody again??

Let's please try to avoid turning this into a partisan issue. It is SO far from that it's not even funny - and everytime I hope politicians might just have a bit of humanity in them, they turn situations like this into a chance to amass votes (I'm not surprised by it, just continually disappointed).
psychopomp95

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Postby wild_westie » Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:07 am

psychopomp95 wrote:I think the point is being missed. This is NOT about "the right to die" (although the fact that the Republicans are turning it into this annoys the hell out of me, but what else should we expect from politicians?) - this is about proof that she really would have wanted to die if she ever ended up in a state like this in the first place! Since there IS no proof, no way in hell should her ex-husband have the right to pull the plug on her.
I'm the last one to say life and death is a black-and-white issue, but in terms of the legal aspect, it should remain so! If she still has a pulse, then she IS still alive, and no one, except for her, should have the right to let her die (unless they had her written permission). And anyways, if it's really true that she feels no pain, how the hell does she apparently respond to various ailments that have afflicted her in the past 15 years? Letting her die would be very cruel.

Oh, and Gary, you make some interesting points about the precedent this sets if they don't let her (ex-)husband do as he desires - maybe you're right, but IMO it's a MUCH more dangerous precedent if a judge rules that someone can end your life without your written consent. That borders on permissable murder!
I still say, much like BE does: if he doesn't want to support her anymore, fine, but why won't he let her parents have custody again??

Let's please try to avoid turning this into a partisan issue. It is SO far from that it's not even funny - and everytime I hope politicians might just have a bit of humanity in them, they turn situations like this into a chance to amass votes (I'm not surprised by it, just continually disappointed).

Missing the point :confused: This issue has different sides to it and our posters are expressing their opinions. They may not jive with yours. So, this is not missing the point.

However, I agree that her parents should get custody. She didn't have a living will stating her wishes. So, she should BY LAW be kept alive. And this should not be batted around in the courts. I also agree it's murder. :mad:

This should be a wake-up call to those who don't have a living will. I bet the majority of Yestalkers would not want to be kept alive if they were in that state.

Latest rumor is that her husband abused her and is suspected of causing this. A nurse who took care of Terri for about a year is quoting Terri's husband as saying "When is that fu$%ing bi&*t going to die." And that "she has ruined my life."

I forsee her feeding tube being reinstalled soon.



wild_westie

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1873
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:00 pm

On it goes..........

Postby BE » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:18 pm

I also heard the nurse say that Michael "injected Terri with insulin",a drug she didnt need or use....

What happens if she now dies a slow painful death. Her parents could probably sue for a number of reasons like: murder,wrongful death, painful death,inhuman treatment,lose of their child,pain and suffering,etc!Michael,the hospital,doctors,judges,state,county,etc.all could share in the blame!
***Visit Yesstuff4u on Ebay***
BE

User avatar
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:16 am
Location: Stanhope,NJ USA

You know

Postby EricBliss12345 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:27 pm

If that woman has even a teeny fraction of a functioning brain she's probably wondering why in the hell they've kept her in such an unlivable state for so fucking long.

They should remove her life support, not starve her to death. Like she hasn't been through enough already. However, I don't know if starving to death and being miserable for a week would be any worse than living ANOTHER 15 years in that state. An awful way to do it but a better way than how it was being done if you ask me. Unfortunately, "better" doesn't necessarily mean "acceptable."

What a fuck-all of a situation huh?
EricBliss12345

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2507
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: New Castle, PA

Postby Ed1909 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:39 pm

wild_westie wrote:Latest rumor is that her husband abused her and is suspected of causing this. A nurse who took care of Terri for about a year is quoting Terri's husband as saying "When is that fu$%ing bi&*t going to die." And that "she has ruined my life."





I don't claim to be an expert on this case, but it has been receiving major coverage in the UK the past few days. Regarding Westie's quote above though, may I point out the word "rumor". Such is the high profile of this case, it's bound to generate media/internet fuelled rumours. And that is all they are.
High vibration go on...
Ed1909

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2236
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:22 pm
Location: North Somerset, United Kingdom.

Postby wild_westie » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:00 am

Ed1909 wrote:I don't claim to be an expert on this case, but it has been receiving major coverage in the UK the past few days. Regarding Westie's quote above though, may I point out the word "rumor". Such is the high profile of this case, it's bound to generate media/internet fuelled rumours. And that is all they are.

I heard this as I watched Fox News. I don't usually watch that news outlet. Fair and balanced my arse. O'Reilly in one of his pompous statements said that we're keeping her alive at the tax payer's expense. Who the in the hell cares about that! He's a total bastard. :mad: Not to mention a sexually-harrassing pervert.
wild_westie

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1873
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:00 pm

Postby SightOfSeeds » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:16 am

this is murder pure and simple,while not being pure in the least and certainly not simple...i am disgusted and saddened with the inhumane manner our "justice" system is handeling this horrific situation...while we as human beings can not give Terri justice for the awful turn of events in her life (that is up 2 the Cosmic Court,if you will) we can however give some 2 her family by simply allowing a woman they so desperatly love and care for the right she has 2 LIVE!!...Terri needs no machines 2 make or even help her 2 breath or her heart 2 pump,the woman is not dying!!...oh,yes thats right,she is now!! why??because they took away her feeding tube,the only thing she needs beside the clear and obvious love her family has 4 her 2 contine the birthright she was gifted with by all of creation,LIFE!!...i'm so sick of the argument "i wouldn't want 2 live like that",well hey,neither would i,who would??...tho Terri didn't conciously make the choice 2 live this way,it was a horrible circumstance of fate...we are talking about a beautiful and may i add INNOCENT woman who's existance has so much worth that threads in the tapestry of the HER life have found thier way into OURS...who does not have an opinion on this?? which of us has not,even if only thru brief glances into our phyche,appplied her familys situation and HER existance 2 that of our very own??...i don't think the issue of her husbands rights being taken away from him by deciding whether she live or die should even be an issue,he can go on with his life as he pleases,he already has...if there were no one else interested in her care then sadly but assuredly this event would have passed unnoticed by almost everyone...tho that is not the case,she has a wonderful caring family who are willing 2 support and care 4 her,so by any sence of justice there may be,the right 2 care 4 her should be relinquished 2 her family!!...her body has functioned just fine this way with the simple assitance of being fed thru a tube because as part of her condition she lost the ability 2 swallow,which thru therapy denied by her husband in writting she may have been able 2 regain...so,even if you would not wish 2 "live like that",would you then prefere 2 be starved 2 death slowly??...QUALITY of life does NOT constitute END of life!!(that bares repeating so read it again :cool: )...should we not then value life at whatever cost possible,so long as life is being prolonged and not the process of death being prolonged??...my vote?? well indeed,it's "Survival" :) ... willing you ALL,along with Terri and her family LOVE,LIFE and PEACE,Luna
[8] ALL is all there is,if you break me down to the level of absolute matter you can not tell me apart from anything else...eye am also a you...
SightOfSeeds

User avatar
Active Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:32 am
Location: where the roots hum

Postby keric » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:57 am

Where to start, where to start. This is not murder. This is a husband who knows, as anyone who is married knows, what his wife and he talked about in their most private talks. Now he has spent 15 years trying to carry out HER wishes. This isn't about whether she CAN be kept alive, but rather WOULD she want to be kept alive if this was her life. She told him no. I've told my wife no. For 15 years, through all attempts to stop him from doing so, he's shown his love for her by trying to carry out HER wishes. Imagine if you were in his shoes and believed that after this life you would be reunited in heaven with those you loved. How would he answer her if he had to face her and told her he gave up on her wishes and allowed her to be kept in what must be a living hell. Is there anyone who thinks that they wouldn't be insane by now if for 15 years all they could do was stare out at the people you love. No ability to interact, no means by which to communicate. I find those that would demand she be kept alive in this state to be much crueler than those that would let her pass on to whatever faces us after this life.
Years ago my wifes family faced the same situation with my father-in-law. They removed his feeding tubes. There was no media circus. No emergency congressional session. No presidential flights to Washington to sign a bill on his behalf. No right to life protesters outside the hospice he was in. Just my wife and her family carrying out the wishes of the father they loved.
I would hope people would stop reading in their own private prejudices against this man, who admittedly has moved on in his private life, as I hope my wife would do. He has kept the one last commitment he can to Terri. For 15 years he's tried to let her move on and not remain trapped in a physical condition none of us would wish on any person we love. This was her desire. She told her husband this was her desire. Let Terri move on to whatever faces us after this life.
keric

User avatar
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Close To The Edge

Postby psychopomp95 » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:46 am

If it IS true then I would certainly understand it... but the problem is, there is no written proof that she said such a thing. I understand the argument, but without PROOF that she would want to die, why is this situation unfolding like it is??
psychopomp95

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Postby yesman90125 » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:56 pm

SightOfSeeds wrote:this is murder pure and simple,while not being pure in the least and certainly not simple...i am disgusted and saddened with the inhumane manner our "justice" system is handeling this horrific situation...while we as human beings can not give Terri justice for the awful turn of events in her life (that is up 2 the Cosmic Court,if you will) we can however give some 2 her family by simply allowing a woman they so desperatly love and care for the right she has 2 LIVE!!...Terri needs no machines 2 make or even help her 2 breath or her heart 2 pump,the woman is not dying!!...oh,yes thats right,she is now!! why??because they took away her feeding tube,the only thing she needs beside the clear and obvious love her family has 4 her 2 contine the birthright she was gifted with by all of creation,LIFE!!...i'm so sick of the argument "i wouldn't want 2 live like that",well hey,neither would i,who would??...tho Terri didn't conciously make the choice 2 live this way,it was a horrible circumstance of fate...we are talking about a beautiful and may i add INNOCENT woman who's existance has so much worth that threads in the tapestry of the HER life have found thier way into OURS...who does not have an opinion on this?? which of us has not,even if only thru brief glances into our phyche,appplied her familys situation and HER existance 2 that of our very own??...i don't think the issue of her husbands rights being taken away from him by deciding whether she live or die should even be an issue,he can go on with his life as he pleases,he already has...if there were no one else interested in her care then sadly but assuredly this event would have passed unnoticed by almost everyone...tho that is not the case,she has a wonderful caring family who are willing 2 support and care 4 her,so by any sence of justice there may be,the right 2 care 4 her should be relinquished 2 her family!!...her body has functioned just fine this way with the simple assitance of being fed thru a tube because as part of her condition she lost the ability 2 swallow,which thru therapy denied by her husband in writting she may have been able 2 regain...so,even if you would not wish 2 "live like that",would you then prefere 2 be starved 2 death slowly??...QUALITY of life does NOT constitute END of life!!(that bares repeating so read it again :cool: )...should we not then value life at whatever cost possible,so long as life is being prolonged and not the process of death being prolonged??...my vote?? well indeed,it's "Survival" :) ... willing you ALL,along with Terri and her family LOVE,LIFE and PEACE,Luna

I couldnt agree more
this is not a question of someone thats brain dead this is someone who is
Very Very sick
yes alot of people wouldsay i wouldnt want to live like that
hmmm
I dont think your living or dying is up to you
its up to ,,,GOD (yup i said it)
this is not a question of someone who is on life support wher "The plug" can be pulled
she is alive and modern medicine can make her reletively comfortable

Doctors take an oath not to do any harm-starving someone is doing harm!!

I am sure it is a sad situation for all involved

but this is not a euthenasia case its a murder case
yesman90125

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:00 pm

Postby keric » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:54 pm

psychopomp95 wrote:If it IS true then I would certainly understand it... but the problem is, there is no written proof that she said such a thing. I understand the argument, but without PROOF that she would want to die, why is this situation unfolding like it is??


He IS your proof. In law we have oral contracts that people are held to. They have to keep their word. That is what he is doing. Keeping his word to the woman who shared her most private wishes with him.
keric

User avatar
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Close To The Edge

Postby in2yes » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:58 pm

Along with the living will , you had better include a medical power of attorney to go with it. This will give the person you choose, the power to make any medical decisions for you if you were unable to communicate. Oh, and then you need to fill out that new HIPPA (whatever it's called!),paper that gives your doctor's permission to share you medical records with this person and anyone else if needed!!!
"...whatever thought you have, can become a new dream..."
in2yes

Charter Member
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 11:10 pm
Location: USA.

Postby yesman90125 » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:36 am

in2yes wrote:Along with the living will , you had better include a medical power of attorney to go with it. This will give the person you choose, the power to make any medical decisions for you if you were unable to communicate. Oh, and then you need to fill out that new HIPPA (whatever it's called!),paper that gives your doctor's permission to share you medical records with this person and anyone else if needed!!!
A)your next of kin makes the desicions about your care if you made no written statement( a written statement in this case refers to a living will)

B)if your next of kin disagrees with your written statement they can pettition the courts and at the very least put a hold on your written wishes
and sometimes block them

C) if you have more than 1 next of kin -say 2 sisters and a brother
and they dont all agree
into court they go -written statement or no
and its more time wasted-while you are suffering

D) if you give someone power of attorney-thats it -they are in control;then and there
you have to sue to get it back -if they wont let it go
but if you want your wife or brother or lover to be able to make decisions
after you cant -give that person Power of Attorney
its easy and innexpensive and covers 90% of the bullshit you need to worry about

E)the H>I>P>P>A> thing MUST be filled out before any doctor will even treat you or see you or even prescribe medications.

F) your primary care doctor can act in your interests if you take the time to inform him/her in advance prefereably in the form of a written statement of intentions not to have excessive or extreme measures of resesitation or life support used should you fall into a condition that your doctors determine that you will not ever return to any quality of life or aka Brain Dead for X number of minutes. they dont need much more than a nod from a family member then .
yesman90125

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:00 pm

Postby relayer4u » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:15 am

I would like just one of the "save Terri" folks to tell me what this poor fellow stands to gain from her death, aside from the relief of finally being able to carry out her spoken wishes? The parents are the ones that are dragging this out beyound what is right, imho.

Yes starvation and dehidration is tough to swallow, but if she said so, he MUST do it! If my wife let me down at the end I would be upset if we ever met again in Hell.....
Ray C. [:f3]

"This to just remind you, All is meant to be."
relayer4u

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 10:21 am
Location: The Wild West

Postby yesman90125 » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:21 am

people all have different ideas of what they can and cannot live through -or at least what they would rather not live through
I could say if I ever get that way let me die too
but if I wasnt brain dead
it wouldnt matter
apparently new laws are being written in tiny paragraphs
so as not to conflict with the constitution
which itself is being changed to accomodate "the future"

I dunno I just cant condone murder

no matter how you package it

brain dead is one thing

not being able to feed yourself and being in a very retarded state are another
I am sure its not a nice life
I am for mercy killing

but this doesnt cross that line for me

all the bs about the parents and the husband aside

if you can open your eyes look around and smile
your not brain dead
if you are not living on life support

apart from getting your nureshment
you are still breathing on your own
your heart is still beating on its own

no unreasonable means of ressesitaion and
lets not feed her are two very different things

this is a joke that this conversation has happenned in our country
its a joke that our government seems so eager to be a part of it(wel that doesnt suprise me actually)
we are not talking about your pet cat here

it makes me sick

and I will not participate in this debate anymore

I would debate euthanasia

but not MURDER
yesman90125

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:00 pm

Next

Return to Other Skylines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron