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YEStalk Discussion Forums • View topic - I'll just post this and let you decide.

I'll just post this and let you decide.



I'll just post this and let you decide.

Postby yesman90125 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:25 am

somebody alerted me to this article via myspace
so I read it and found it thought provoking
I am not advocating the use of marijuana
I am just posting the arguments for and against it
we'll just cast this out there and see who wants to take a bite.



<SMALL>March 3rd, 2008 By: Ron Fisher, NORML Outreach Coordinator</SMALL>
Here at NORML we are used to seeing some about the ills of cannabis. However, even we were shocked when a supporter from Iowa sent us Senator Tom Harkin’s (D, IA) raging, reefer madness-esque reply to his note asking him to justify why medicinal cannabis is still illegal after the second largest medical association in the country, the American College of Physicians, . Here’s the highlights of the reply he received (full text ):

[INDENT]Dear XXXX:
Thank you for contacting me. I am always glad to hear from you.
Marijuana is often the drug singled out for legalization. However, marijuana is not the recreational drug that many believe it to be. In a study completed by the Drug Abuse Warning Network, the number of marijuana related emergencies has nearly reached the level of cocaine related emergencies. As this statistic indicates, marijuana use often has fatal consequences.
I was deeply troubled when I learned of another recent study which found that nearly one-third of all eighth graders had tried marijuana. As the father of two daughters, it greatly disturbs me that children are exposed to drugs at such a young age. I am concerned that legalization of this drug will only increase the number of children who gain access to its harmful effects.
The victims of the drug war are many - the small child whose parents are so addicted to illegal drugs that they sell everything including perhaps their own children to obtain a fix; the police officer’s family which must now learn to cope with the loss of their loved one as a result of a violent drug bust gone awry. These are the people I think of when I say that drugs pose a significant threat to the security of this nation.
Legalizing drugs is equivalent to declaring surrender in the war on drugs. However we may differ in tactics, I am hopeful that we can work together to fight drugs in our communities and to make Iowa drug free.
Again, thanks for sharing your views with me. Please don’t hesitate to let me know how you feel on any issue that concerns you.
Sincerely,
Tom Harkin
United States Senator
[/INDENT](Emphases mine)
Okay, so setting aside the fact that Senator Harkin’s response pertains to legalization of marijuana, and NOT medical cannabis as the constituent asked about, let’s deconstruct some of the myths propagated in this letter.
1. “The number of marijuana related emergencies has nearly reached the level of cocaine related emergencies. As this statistic indicates, marijuana use often has fatal consequences.”
This is an propagated by the drug czar’s minions. The Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) collects its data on ‘marijuana related emergencies’ by noting every single time someone tells their doctor that they use marijuana. So if I were to accidentally break my leg and go to the ER, and my doctor asked if I use any drugs and I say I occasionally smoke marijuana (as I should, as we should all be honest with our physicians), then this would be a ‘marijuana related emergency,’ even if I hadn’t smoked in weeks.
And fatal? Please! As Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School Lester Grinspoon , “There is no known case of a lethal overdose; on the basis of animal models, the ratio of lethal to effective dose is estimated as 40,000 to 1. By comparision, the ratio is…between 4 and 10 to 1 for ethanol (alcohol).” Additionally, a 1994 report by the Australian National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre found that “There are no recorded cases of fatalities attributable to cannabis, and the extrapolated lethal dose from animal studies cannot be achieved by recreational users.”
2. “I was deeply troubled when I learned of another recent study which found that nearly one-third of all eighth graders had tried marijuana.”
I do not doubt that marijuana is easier to obtain for minors than alcohol, which . But this problem is precisely why prohibition is a terrible policy-there is no incentive at all for suppliers to keep their product out of the hands of children. This is in stark contrast to alcohol, whose vendors must protect their valuable liquor licenses (often costing around $100,000) by ensuring they do not sell to minors. You didn’t think they did it out of the kindness of their own heart, did you? In a regulated market, government can incentivize suppliers in this way. On the black market, we leave kids out in the cold-and the prohibitionists point to us and say, “What about the children?” Which brings us to…
3. “The victims of the drug war are many - the small child whose parents are so addicted to illegal drugs that they sell everything including perhaps their own children to obtain a fix; the police officer’s family which must now learn to cope with the loss of their loved one as a result of a violent drug bust gone awry.”
Classic drug war rhetoric-let’s avoid serious policy discussion and instead flee to hyperbolic appeals to emotion, without serious examination of how these nightmare scenarios are facilitated by current policy. First, marijuana is less addictive than , according to the Institute of Medicine, let alone illicit drugs one might associate with the type of dependency described above.
While marijuana generally is not associated with the same level of violence that other illicit drugs are, there is no doubt that there have been fatal incidents (some involving law enforcement) involving marijuana. The tragic aspect of this fact is that given marijuana’s proven relative safety and lower addiction rates compared with legal drugs, the prohibitionist policy towards it-sustained by the same kind of rhetoric that Senator Harkin uses-has contributed more to the violence than any other factor. Indeed, when one looks at the alcohol industry today, there is no violent crime in the production and shipment of their goods; yet were one to see the same industry in the 1920s during alcohol prohibition, one might have seen other Senators making the same empty arguments about alcohol.
If you’d like to tell Senator Harkin to start basing his marijuana policies on science and not fearmongering, feel free to contact him .
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Re: I'll just post this and let you decide.

Postby N2yes » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:42 pm

I'll just say make it legal ( for those over 18 ), tax it and get rid of the national debt. Quick fix but an incredibly easy one. As long as cigarettes are legal with all their known adverse health effects, it's pretty hypocritical.
Oh, btw, I've only wanted to jump out of a really tall building once when I was under the cannabis influence. ; )
"Master of images-Songs cast a light on you"
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Re: I'll just post this and let you decide.

Postby yesman90125 » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:18 pm

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Re: I'll just post this and let you decide.

Postby tardistraveler » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:55 pm

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Re: I'll just post this and let you decide.

Postby yesman90125 » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:02 pm

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Re: I'll just post this and let you decide.

Postby yesman90125 » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:57 am


well now if we can get Wisconsin Illinois and Minnesota to go for this
I bet if put to a refferendum this would pass in almost all of the country-my doctor told me half of the country smokes pot
I wonder if his facts are correct i dont see many people speaking out against this, except the Feds. medical use and social use are a rather fine line though.








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ok lets just call this the should certin drugs be legalized thread

Postby yesman90125 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:22 pm

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=450 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=0 align=right border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>Image</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Cary Grant, who took LSD more than sixty times under the therapeutic auspices of <NOBR>Dr. Mortimer</NOBR> Hartmann and then <NOBR>Dr. Oscar</NOBR> Janiger, had this to say about his treatment in 1959:
"All my life, I've been searching for peace of mind. I'd explored yoga and hypnotism and made several attempts at mysticism. Nothing really seemed to give me what I wanted until this treatment." "I have been born again. I have been through a psychiatric experience which has completely changed me. I was horrendous. I had to face things about myself which I never admitted, which I didn't know were there. Now I know that I hurt every woman I ever loved. I was an utter fake, a self-opinionated bore, a know-all who knew very little. I found I was hiding behind all kinds of defenses, hypocrisies and vanities. I had to get rid of them layer by layer. The moment when your conscious meets your subconscious is a hell of a wrench. With me there came a day when I saw the light." I don't know about you, but personally I think that's just beautiful!
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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Re: ok lets just call this the should certin drugs be legalized thread

Postby Roan's Lady » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:54 pm

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Re: ok lets just call this the should certin drugs be legalized thread

Postby yesman90125 » Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:37 pm

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"drugs and stuff"

Postby yesman90125 » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:03 pm

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Re: "drugs and stuff"

Postby Roan's Lady » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:50 pm

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Re: "drugs and stuff"

Postby yesman90125 » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:40 pm

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Re: "drugs and stuff"

Postby yesman90125 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:09 am

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I report,You decide

Postby yesman90125 » Sat May 10, 2008 3:46 am












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