On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment



On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:07 am

YESMAN 90125's Online Harassment


Several months ago, I was banned by N2Yes, moderator/administrator for using obscenities against another member,YESMAN 90125 , in a political thread.

YESMAN 90125 provoked the argument with insults.


The Yestalk terms of use prohibit harassment of fellow members, insults, and use of obsenities against other members.

I got banned right after YESMAN 90125 edited his post, and YESMAN 90125 used obscenities against me, but quickly erased them the moment N2Yes the moderator started reading that political thread.

If N2Yes had been online and seen what YESMAN 90125 wrote, just a split second before YESMAN 90125 edited his post, YESMAN 90125 would have been banned for 3 months or whatever.

My banning was totally unfair as I see it, and I have a suspicion that the moderator N2Yes shares the same political views as YESMAN 90125, so that may have influenced my banning

IN A THREAD TODAY YESMAN 90125 wrote this to me(THESE ARE THE WORDS OF YESMAN 90125 : " Luckily since our previous drawn out encounter I've run across[political] Idiots like you often on forums (though arguably none as ignorant)and now I understand much more clearly where your mentality is at".

Yes, Yesman90125 wrote the above. He may have erased it, but it was in his post. He called me an idiot, that is against the terms of use.

This above is reason to be banned, Yesman.

YESMAN 90125 just showed disrespect by using the word "idiot". YESMAN 90125 violated terms and conditions of use on Yestalk.

YESMAN 90125 has the right to disagree, but so do I. YESMAN 90125's insults to me are direct. I never insult or provoke


YESMAN 90125's continual Online Harassment of Greenglade is quite unfair, and illegal.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:24 am

Yesman's online harassment of me actually is illegal.

I wait for the day Yesman90125 is banned and learns a little humility
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Kalingzeye » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:33 am

~mispost, one minute still typing~
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:37 am

Kalingzeye wrote:~mispost, one minute still typing~


All supporters of Yesman90125's harassment of Greenglade will also be reported and monitored

I will not be pushed around

I may have recourse to a lawyer

The banning was a great injustice.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Kalingzeye » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:09 am

As true as that is, when us mods feel like a situation is getting out of hand, then we step in. We deal with situations on an individual basis. It's not our job to police and correct every single post, we count on posters to try and behave and react to one another on a mature basis. In all honesty, in the great big world of the web, calling someone an "idiot" once is hardly online harassment. While I do question Chris's choice in words, and agree that perhaps he shouldn't have called you an idiot, that single infraction is not enough to get him banned. We mods discuss bannings very seriously, everyone voices their opinion, and then the powers-that-be make the decision based on the discussion.

I was not aware at all of any editings on Chris's part, it never came up in our discussions, but perhaps he edited them not, in fact, to be sneaky and get away with them, but because he realized what he was saying. That's part of why we have the edit feature; so you're not stuck eating any words you wrote in a split-second fit of rage. ;D You could have edited or apologized for any of your posts, but you didn't. That's your decision. Admins & mods only consider banning as a last resort, in reaction to repeat and serious infractions of the above ToS quote you posted.

So yes, maybe a slap on the wrist for Chris. He did go there first this time, as you've pointed out, but to be honest, your own posts seem like you are trying to get a rise out of him on purpose. For instance, posting policially provocative images in non-political and neutral threads. (I might also not that you brought Chris's and Terry's names into the argument in question before Chris made the post you are referring to. That can be seen as provoking or you trying to start a fight.) You said, "I never insult or provoke", but for the record, you have insulted and provoked many a time, and used very harsh language towards other members, so that's not quite accurate. If that was true, you would never have been banned in the first place. I can bring out the quotes if you so desire.

Please know that any major decisions are not based on one person out to get you- all major decisions are discussed democratically by all mods and admins as a group, and as far as I know Chris never went behind your back to try and make you look bad. (And I need to point out that you didn't have to post this in practically all the active forums, that's a little unnecessary; this thread and the one in politics is plenty to let us mods know how you feel.)

So, overall, thank you for bringing this to light and letting us know how you feel. You do have a point, but be aware that a single, less severe infraction is probably not enough to get anyone banned. Us mods & admins will discuss anything we feel we need to, and we will continue to monitor the situation closely. We value you greatly on the forum, you bring a lot of great opinions and ideas, so know that we all try to be as un-biased and fair as we possibly can when it comes to issues like this. Believe me, any major decisions are not based on N2's (or anyone's) political opinions.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Kalingzeye » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:11 am

Greenglade's Frog wrote:All supporters of Yesman90125's harassment of Greenglade will also be reported and monitored

I will not be pushed around

I may have recourse to a lawyer

The banning was a great injustice.


I really can't tell if you are being serious or not. Sorry, but...
Is that supposed to be a joke?
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:24 am

Kalingzeye wrote:As true as that is, when us mods feel like a situation is getting out of hand, then we step in. We deal with situations on an individual basis. It's not our job to police and correct every single post, we count on posters to try and behave and react to one another on a mature basis. In all honesty, in the great big world of the web, calling someone an "idiot" once is hardly online harassment. While I do question Chris's choice in words, and agree that perhaps he shouldn't have called you an idiot, that single infraction is not enough to get him banned. We mods discuss bannings very seriously, everyone voices their opinion, and then the powers-that-be make the decision based on the discussion.

I was not aware at all of any editings on Chris's part, it never came up in our discussions, but perhaps he edited them not, in fact, to be sneaky and get away with them, but because he realized what he was saying. That's part of why we have the edit feature; so you're not stuck eating any words you wrote in a split-second fit of rage. ;D You could have edited or apologized for any of your posts, but you didn't. That's your decision. Admins & mods only consider banning as a last resort, in reaction to repeat and serious infractions of the above ToS quote you posted.

So yes, maybe a slap on the wrist for Chris. He did go there first this time, as you've pointed out, but to be honest, your own posts seem like you are trying to get a rise out of him on purpose. For instance, posting policially provocative images in non-political and neutral threads. (I might also not that you brought Chris's and Terry's names into the argument in question before Chris made the post you are referring to. That can be seen as provoking or you trying to start a fight.) You said, "I never insult or provoke", but for the record, you have insulted and provoked many a time, and used very harsh language towards other members, so that's not quite accurate. If that was true, you would never have been banned in the first place. I can bring out the quotes if you so desire.

Please know that any major decisions are not based on one person out to get you- all major decisions are discussed democratically by all mods and admins as a group, and as far as I know Chris never went behind your back to try and make you look bad. (And I need to point out that you didn't have to post this in practically all the active forums, that's a little unnecessary; this thread and the one in politics is plenty to let us mods know how you feel.)

So, overall, thank you for bringing this to light and letting us know how you feel. You do have a point, but be aware that a single, less severe infraction is probably not enough to get anyone banned. Us mods & admins will discuss anything we feel we need to, and we will continue to monitor the situation closely. We value you greatly on the forum, you bring a lot of great opinions and ideas, so know that we all try to be as un-biased and fair as we possibly can when it comes to issues like this. Believe me, any major decisions are not based on N2's (or anyone's) political opinions.


I really don't like the condescending attitude, especially from someone of your age and experience(and political view)



Did Yesman apologize for his posts? NO, never.
Does Terry Shea? NO, never
Did both Terry and Yesman provoke and post provacative images? YES
Did both Terry and Yesman use insulting and provacative language? YES

"you have insulted and provoked many a time, and used very harsh language towards other members, so that's not quite accurate."

My language was only insulting against Yesman. And he did the exact same thing to me. He was very sneaky in doing it also.

If I said anyting that insulted Terry Shea, it was in direct response to what he said, and he was insulting as well.

It is all political. There is nothing just, fair or logical about it. You know it and will probably understand your biases later if you think about it.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Kalingzeye » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:32 am

If I came across as condescending, I'm really sorry, I seriously didn't mean to be. It's a tricky spot, I was trying to be as unbiased & honest as I could without ignoring any facts or alternate views. I can't be on either side here because I like both you and Chris very much, but on the other hand, I don't think either of you are innocent in this. But sorry again. I'll leave the stage open for any of the other mods & admins to respond, or correct me if I said anything off. >_>
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby tribute1969 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:36 am

Send some of your killer peacocks to your mortal enemy......
WAR IS OVER! IF YOU WANT IT!
John and Yoko Ono Lennon-1969
WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT SPIRIT HERE SINCE 1969...
Hotel California
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby N2yes » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:37 am

GF, I suggest you cool your jets for a moment. By jumping the gun and accusing me of being in collusion with YESMAN is a bit much. I understand your frustrations, but be careful where you tread in slinging false allegations. I would advise you to read your e-mail. I read it and responded well before I came across this. You have a right to be upset. You used the correct channel when you contacted me. This is not the way. Please respond to your e-mail. Thanks.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:39 am

Kalingzeye wrote:If I came across as condescending, I'm really sorry, I seriously didn't mean to be. It's a tricky spot, I was trying to be as unbiased & honest as I could without ignoring the facts. I can't be on either side here because I like both you and Chris very much, but on the other hand, I don't think either of you are innocent in this. But sorry again. I'll leave the stage open for any of the other mods & admins to respond, or correct me if I said anything off. >_>


I'm really sick of turning the other cheek, being the nice guy and getting trampled on by the Hawks.

The opinions I express in the political threads are pacifist and are against cruelty to humanity as a whole. I am against oppression and violence(not to mention US foreign policy--remember Hiroshima?)

Terry Shea and Yesman seem to want to oppress humanity and bomb them to hell. They are Hawks, anti-intellectual, pro-war. Frightening people

I'm not authoritarian at all, and mostly want Yesman and Terry Shea to be "slapped on the wrist", reprimanded . I am not into banning, but I KNOW Yesman deserved to get banned, but he was very quick to edit his post.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:45 am

N2yes wrote:GF, I suggest you cool your jets for a moment. By jumping the gun and accusing me of being in collusion with YESMAN is a bit much. I understand your frustrations, but be careful where you tread in slinging false allegations. I would advise you to read your e-mail. I read it and responded well before I came across this. You have a right to be upset. You used the correct channel when you contacted me. This is not the way. Please respond to your e-mail. Thanks.



I give up. I will always lose.

No justice. No way I can ever win. Not worth it. I will never when against the Establishment.

No justice. None at all.

I will always lose
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Kalingzeye » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:46 am

I'm sorry I posted in the first place. For many reasons.
Failed mod attempt on my part, I guess.
I don't know what to say anymore. :\
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:53 am

I suppose I will just continue to turn the other cheek and be insulted, be harassed and derided by certain online bullies here..

I have no power at all. I will never win.

Greenglade, the victim here.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby yesman90125 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:03 am

This is all news to me




Wiki=
[color=lime]An Internet troll, or simply troll , is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum. with the intention of provoking other users or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
[/color]
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:42 am

I am being continually harassed by Yesman90125. This is not fair.
He is violating my civil rights
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Tomfoolery » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:09 am

As a precautionary statement, I'm hereby requesting that none of the individuals that have been named in what appears to be a deliberately provocative manner weigh in on this thread. Please, let's not feed this thread.

I apologize if I've stepped out of bounds here, as I'm not the moderator of this forum, but as a member, reading things that have been posted with this extent of what appears to be malice and deliberately provocative intent disgusts me.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby CourtoftheCrimsonKeith » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:01 am

Greenglade's Frog wrote:I really don't like the condescending attitude, especially from someone of your age and experience(and political view)


This is a real cheap shot. I think Kalingzeye made a clear and mature statement that did not deserve to be commented on the way you did. Her attitude was not condescending, and for you to infer that her opinion is less important that yours because you happen to be older is just silly.

I'm a relatively new member and don't know any of you, but I hae to see people act this way.

Grow up.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Terry Shea » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:36 pm

Greenglade's Frog wrote:I'm really sick of turning the other cheek, being the nice guy and getting trampled on by the Hawks.

The opinions I express in the political threads are pacifist and are against cruelty to humanity as a whole. I am against oppression and violence(not to mention US foreign policy--remember Hiroshima?)

Terry Shea and Yesman seem to want to oppress humanity and bomb them to hell. They are Hawks, anti-intellectual, pro-war. Frightening people

I'm not authoritarian at all, and mostly want Yesman and Terry Shea to be "slapped on the wrist", reprimanded . I am not into banning, but I KNOW Yesman deserved to get banned, but he was very quick to edit his post.

Allright, knock off your lying slander, now! "Oppress humanity and bomb them to hell"? You're nothing but a mean liar and not a very smart one at that. Why anyone would continue to put up with you here is beyond me.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Terry Shea » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:41 pm

Greenglade's Frog wrote:I suppose I will just continue to turn the other cheek and be insulted, be harassed and derided by certain online bullies here..

I have no power at all. I will never win.

Greenglade, the victim here.

GF, once again you're projecting your own behavior onto others. Don't take this the wrong way, but I seriously think you may need some professional help.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby yesireebob » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:52 pm

People, people. This is an internet forum. Its membership is based on mutual love for the music of Yes. It is a FAN FORUM. It is not life. Or death. Political opinions are fair game for discussion, but personal attacks are simply unacceptable. From anyone. It is possible to disagree with a member's political or religious beliefs without attacking that member on a personal level. And, disagreements with one's own beliefs should never be construed as a personal attack. Name-calling, opinions about another member's intelligence or lack thereof, armchair diagnoses of mental health issues, and judgemental diatribe based on a need to always be right are not only out of bounds on a public forum, they are just unkind. In saying that, I am not singling out anyone but addressing to this to everyone involved in this fracas. PLEASE, everyone, dial it back a notch and stop reacting. There is a reason we keep coming back here. Let's focus on that commonality and let go of the personal crap.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Roan's Lady » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:01 am

From what I have seen over the years, I don't like either of 'em.

If that's an "insult", let me know, Mods.

Good luck, N2 and gang.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby yesireebob » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:35 am

Miss you here, Amy.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby tardistraveler » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:46 am

I've been out of pocket here for the last week due to my internet being down at home, and illness. Thanks to all the mods who weighed in here.

Political discussions tend to get VERY heated. When you're dealing with folks who are passionate about what they believe, and their views differ, it's going to get ugly. Happens all the time on another forum I frequent . . . ;)

ALL of you have to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. I haven't seen the current exchange that prompted this outburst, but I've seen a lot of the back-and-forth on the U.S. Presidential Election thread, and some ugly, hateful things have been hurled about, in my book, without regard for those out here who may not agree with your views. I've had to try not to be personally insulted by some of those statements, although they didn't target me by name, they targeted my views in a derogatory way, and it stung.

If we can't keep politics respectful out here, then we probably need to close the political-oriented threads.

I'll check the outstanding threads and weigh in further later.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby 2Lizard4 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:32 am

I say, when you enter a thread that is political IN its forum, and you re enter, and re enter, you should know what is possible, and should be ready for the heat. But at the same time we should try and use restraint towards each other, and the use of colorfull language, we shouldnt have to restrain our veiws that are in line with any particular thread.
Kalingeyes, I thought you handeled your comments INCREADIBLY well.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby 2Lizard4 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:24 am

Even tho I think yesman is a gay leftest liberal transvestite in disguse, we should not ban him
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Terry Shea » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:59 am

tardistraveler wrote:I've been out of pocket here for the last week due to my internet being down at home, and illness. Thanks to all the mods who weighed in here.

Political discussions tend to get VERY heated. When you're dealing with folks who are passionate about what they believe, and their views differ, it's going to get ugly. Happens all the time on another forum I frequent . . . ;)

ALL of you have to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. I haven't seen the current exchange that prompted this outburst, but I've seen a lot of the back-and-forth on the U.S. Presidential Election thread, and some ugly, hateful things have been hurled about, in my book, without regard for those out here who may not agree with your views. I've had to try not to be personally insulted by some of those statements, although they didn't target me by name, they targeted my views in a derogatory way, and it stung.

If we can't keep politics respectful out here, then we probably need to close the political-oriented threads.

I'll check the outstanding threads and weigh in further later.


The problem here doesn't have anything to do with politics, it was just that GF targeted a political thread to make demands, order people around and insult and slander them.
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Terry Shea » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:02 am

Roan's Lady wrote:From what I have seen over the years, I don't like either of 'em.

If that's an "insult", let me know, Mods.

Good luck, N2 and gang.

Well I don't dislike you Amy, even if you are trying to provoke me. :)
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby 2Lizard4 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:21 am

Terry, politics have been cut throat ever since time began, and life and peace and war have never been perfect, only torn apart by arm chair quaterbacks, AND I say BS, if you country called, even at your age you would serve. but you would serve as my brother did, for the right reasons, even if people picked it apart. We have a saying in data analysis, we can make the data say what ever you want. I have a few very CLOSE FREINDS from VIETNAM, and even though the war was disstorted, they know that because we pulled out( thank you walter concrete), MILLIONS SUFFORED
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Re: On banning Yestalk members/Online Harassment

Postby Terry Shea » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:39 am

Greenglade's Frog wrote:
Did both Terry and Yesman provoke and post provacative images? YES

Did both Terry and Yesman use insulting and provacative language? YES

If I said anyting that insulted Terry Shea, it was in direct response to what he said, and he was insulting as well.
[/B]

Really? Please document this. In fact I insist that you do so. I provoked you and posted provocative images, eh? I don't believe I've ever posted an image of any kind here, and if I did it had to be quite some time ago, and I certainly wouldn't do it to provoke anyone. You did however post an image of William Ayers, a self acknowledged and unrepentant terrorist with the caption "William Ayers, American Hero" (post #193 from The U.S. Presidential Election thread). Who's provoking who? You're projecting again.

I did say you were out of your mind after that post, but it was nothing personal. I believe anyone who would admire a terrorist and wish him a cabinet position in our government has to be out of his mind.

Greenglade's Frog wrote:Terry Shea and Yesman seem to want to oppress humanity and bomb them to hell. They are Hawks, anti-intellectual, pro-war. Frightening people
Once again I'm going to ask...no, demand that you document this nonsense! On what do you base that I am pro-war and want to oppress humanity and bomb them to hell? Good luck.
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Ignore the problem and it will go away.-some dead moron
Terry Shea

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Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:02 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA.

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