Emerson, Lake & Palmer



Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby john mccleary » Thu May 08, 2008 6:46 pm

Im a ELP head. Seem them in Conn when I was 16.Saw them in Dallas with Cozy Powwel.In my early 20s.My older brother 6 years older bought me Brain salad suregery When I was 13. ;) .
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby yesman90125 » Thu May 08, 2008 7:28 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:The only thing I didn't like much about ELP was the fact that Emerson didn't seem to know when to take his hands off the keyboards on many occasions. Many times his solos went overlong and were much to intricate when something shorter and simpler would have (in my uneducated opinion) fit much better in the overall progression of the tune.

One of my absolute favorite songs by ELP is C'Est La Vie ... NO percussion in that song whatsoever, but it's absolutely brilliant....

I think the reason is that there was really no guitar player as such
since Greg Lake Rarely played one,mostly playing the Bass.Keith was the feature of ELP.and as such played the leads on keyboards.I agree with you to a point that probably some other instruments would have helped the sound in some spots-ELP is probably what a lot of Critics are refering to when they talk about PRog being self indulgent especially when they started to think they were a symphony in things Like"Works"
but all that said they sure burned bright when they played
their live shows are stilll hallmarks of performance in the Rock world.
there's no denying that keith was at the forefront of keyboards and synthesizers of the day-which turned out to be a pretty important thing in modern music-and unlike the electric guitar
the "envelope" of synths is still being pushed today
unfortunatly after awhile ELP kind of repeated itself musicly
and became redundant.
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby Mr. Stout » Sat May 10, 2008 1:27 am

I dodnt think ELP ever repeated themselves musically and became redundant. They always tried to push the envelope, but when punk came along, they were seen as being pretentious.
Pretentious-having or making claims to excellence.
I don`t get why critics used that label when it comes to bands such as ELP, Yes, etc. All these bands were trying to do was put out the best music they possibly could.
Brian sald Surgery is one of the great prog rock albums of all time. That is the height of ELP`s creative powers. A concept album detailing the battle between man vs. technology. Don`t you think it`s quite ironic that we are consumed by technology regarding laptops, personal pc`s, I-pods, and cellphones. If anything,lyric writers \Lake and Peter sinfield were quite prescient
Perhaos you could accuse them of overindulgence, but don`t you think that term is an oxymoron when all musicians strive to make music that pleases themselves first and foremost.? The four sided Works Vol. 1 might have smacked of overindulgence; three sides were devoted to each band member, but it was a more effective way of having your music heard reather than releasing seprate solo albums where only the diehards would buy it.
When touring that album, they toured with an orchestra which was defintiley a step forward. Why was it when matellica used an orchestra years later, it was decidedly cool?
The first four studio albums of ELP, Tarkus, Trilogy, and Brain sald surgey were really cutting edge for their time.. after that, everything became ego driven as Lake onetime stated.
Her`s a top five list of what I feel is essential ELP.
1. Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends..(1974)
This live set is awesome in scope . A resume of everything ELP had done up to that point,
2. Brian sald surgery (1973)-one of the best concept albums.
3. Tarkus- The structure of the tarkus suite is classically inspired and tightly woven together, proving ELP were not just aband of individuall players, but they could gel together as a team.
4. Pictures at an Exhibition- Classical music set to rock and roll. no ne was better at adapting the classics to the rock idiom better than Keith Emerson.
5. Emerson,lake and powell- Yes, different drummer, but ELP music with a modern edge
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby yesman90125 » Sat May 10, 2008 2:00 am

Stout Don't get me wrong
I really like ELP
I agree with you about Brain Salad Surgery
and About Trilogy & Tarkus
those are some of my favorite all time albums
as is the first Emerson,Lake and Palmer
I liked that album with Cozy Powell too
in some Places Pictures at An Exhibition can get a little pretentious
as can Works I & II
I've seen em play 3 times
and every time it was fantastic
I've no problem with them playing with the Orchestra
I think that at one time they imagined they were an Orchestra
some Good stuff came out of that too
but also some .......other stuff
definatly talented work
but I think some of it left more mainstream listeners behind
BTW I thought Metallica With that Orchestra was Rediculous
although there was one Good song they did
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby sound_chaser » Sat May 10, 2008 9:43 am

Mr. Stout wrote:I dodnt think ELP ever repeated themselves musically and became redundant. They always tried to push the envelope, but when punk came along, they were seen as being pretentious.


I think the biggest problem both Yes and ELP had in all the turmoil of punk, is that they became complacent and stale. They had enjoyed a lot of success, but friendships had soured and the times had passed them by. Fortunately, the times would swing back around their way, but back in the late seventies, they must have wondered what was happening?
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby Mr. Stout » Wed May 14, 2008 4:29 pm

yesman90125 wrote:Stout Don't get me wrong
I really like ELP
I agree with you about Brain Salad Surgery
and About Trilogy & Tarkus
those are some of my favorite all time albums
as is the first Emerson,Lake and Palmer
I liked that album with Cozy Powell too
in some Places Pictures at An Exhibition can get a little pretentious
as can Works I & II
I've seen em play 3 times
and every time it was fantastic
I've no problem with them playing with the Orchestra
I think that at one time they imagined they were an Orchestra
some Good stuff came out of that too
but also some .......other stuff
definatly talented work
but I think some of it left more mainstream listeners behind
BTW I thought Metallica With that Orchestra was Rediculous
although there was one Good song they did

Even though the orchestra for ELp may have felt like a step forward for them, I did have problems with it in the fact that ELp was an orchestra by themselves. It was the chemistry of the three band members that made it a stellar group. usually, orchestras and rock don`t mix,but `Pirates', the one track off of Works Vol. 1, was probaly one of the few sucessful collaborations between a rock group and an orchestra.
ELP were highly castigated by critics for toting along orchestras and their elaborate stage shows, but there were some acts such as U2 that exceeded ELP in excess in regards to their Zooropa tour, but you never hear a bad word from the critics regarding their `darlings'.
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby Mr. Stout » Wed May 14, 2008 4:43 pm

sound_chaser wrote:I think the biggest problem both Yes and ELP had in all the turmoil of punk, is that they became complacent and stale. They had enjoyed a lot of success, but friendships had soured and the times had passed them by. Fortunately, the times would swing back around their way, but back in the late seventies, they must have wondered what was happening?
ELP were burned out by the time of Love Beach after a year and half of touring, They had no intentions of recording another studio album,but were obligated by contract under Atlantic records. They were pursuaded to record an album of radio friendly singles and unfortunately, the first side is a composite of half baked pop songs complete with impoverished music and bad lyrics.
The second side of the album with the conceptual piece , Memoirs of an officer and a gentleman is far superior. Lake gives one of the best vocal performances of his career,and the music backing isn`t bad but Emerson`s keyboard sounds are lacking in toughness and can border on being fey..Also, there was tension in the air between Emerson and Lake over the failed orchestral tour which cost them a bundle.
At that time, they really didnt care anymore about being ELP and wanted to let it go,but record comapny pressure was calling the shots.
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby happytheman » Thu May 15, 2008 11:21 am

Tomfoolery wrote:The only thing I didn't like much about ELP was the fact that Emerson didn't seem to know when to take his hands off the keyboards on many occasions. Many times his solos went overlong and were much to intricate when something shorter and simpler would have (in my uneducated opinion) fit much better in the overall progression of the tune.

One of my absolute favorite songs by ELP is C'Est La Vie ... NO percussion in that song whatsoever, but it's absolutely brilliant....

In the most recent book on Genesis, Tony Banks talks of a "similar" situation with Genesis. He would come up with these intricate solos and Mike and Phil would have to stop him and convince him that "less is more" and the results were "radio friendly" pop songs that were really good "pop" songs with just enough for the average listener to handle while driving down the road. Something they could whistle to after one verse. Formula rock/pop? you bet.
Regarding Greg's acoustic side, I love the "lighter" moments in Pictures, Trilogy and for heavens sake can there be a better single than Lucky Man?
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby thesage » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:49 am

Like many on this forum Im a huge ELP fan and for many years rated them as the prog band- I regard their output to Works 1 are extraordinary- but the subsequent albums were lack lustre- the only gem being the ELPowell album of 1986. In recent interviews Carl Palmer opined that ELP made more bad albums than good and described the last two efforts of In the Hot Seat and Black Moon as "rubbish" He has also stated that a major problem was that Keith Emerson really dried up as a composer in the late 70s- I listen to side 2 of love beach and IMHO hear a rushed and unfinished composition- similarly on ITHS there are some great tunes but awful synth patches- its the most unsounding ELP album- another problem for me was Greg Lake- the voice disappeared and having seen the Montreaux DVD along with the last Sth American shows- apart from his weight issues- he was barely playing and looked totally disinterested- its a shame that with both ELP break ups- 1978/9 and again in 1998- they left us with the bottom of the barrel musical efforts- As Carl has also stated- there is still one great ELP album to be made- unfortunately I doubt w'll ever see it
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby sound_chaser » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:25 am

thesage wrote: In recent interviews Carl Palmer opined that ELP made more bad albums than good and described the last two efforts of In the Hot Seat and Black Moon as "rubbish"


That's funny, because I've always liked Black Moon myself and, although no classic, thought it was a solidly good album. Excellent tour as well.
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby Thoughtbecontact » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:17 pm

I adored ELP in their heyday...now having said that, and noting that I was keys woman growing up, ahem...

I have a big problem with Black Moon. Never bought it, but I've heard some of the tracks. Had a huge problem with Lake's voice on this release, from what I understand was due to alleged substance abuse. It's painful for me to listen to the latter material.

I can forgive failings due to age, but not due to alleged substance abuse, but that's just me...

On that note, never heard anything from the last release mentioned.
AWAKEN/GENTLE/MASS/TOUCH
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby yesman90125 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:54 pm

Greg Lake has sort of developed an "Elvis" syndrome I think
I wonder if he eats bacon on his Peanut butter and jelly sandwitches
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby thesage » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:49 am

Every ELP abum has a gem on it somewhere- Black Moon has several good tracks and a lot more instrumentation reminiscent of 70s ELP sound, if not quite the flash- the second half of Black Moon is similar to aquatarkus, romeo and julliet- a classic adaptation- affairs of the heart -arguably the best greg lake song since c'est la vie- Changing states - a great instrumental but the version on Keith solo album is better- close to home is ok- but the Ballade version on keith's album with the classical guitar is arguably better--as for the rest "rubbish"-for an elp album! In the Hot Seat- apart from the opening track its lamentable and doesn't even sound like ELP! Unfortunately Greg's voice was shot for both these albums- whether it was substance abuse or not, I don't know but that distinctive choir boy tenor quality, still evident on the ELPowell album, disappeared replaced by a baritone with audible rasp and a terrible habit of sliding pitch on the higher notes - not their finest releases
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby Mr. Stout » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:45 am

Thoughtbecontact wrote:I adored ELP in their heyday...now having said that, and noting that I was keys woman growing up, ahem...

I have a big problem with Black Moon. Never bought it, but I've heard some of the tracks. Had a huge problem with Lake's voice on this release, from what I understand was due to alleged substance abuse. It's painful for me to listen to the latter material.

I can forgive failings due to age, but not due to alleged substance abuse, but that's just me...

On that note, never heard anything from the last release mentioned.

Not true. It wasnt substance abuse,but years of smoking and an irregular practice schedule. Six years between the ELPowell album and the Black Moon album had gone by and lake didnt really do a whole lot, apart from recording with Geoff Downes; `The Ride The Tiger project', which some of the song ended up on Black Moon album. There is no small wonder why lake`s voice had changed.
I saw them on that Black Moon tour and Lake sang well, although a little raspy with traces of the Greg lake of old. As the tour progressed, and that was a mammoth tour that lasted from `92-93, his vocals deteriorated.
Emerson himslelf had expressed frustration with Lake over his vocals, especially when Emerson had surgery on his left arm (a degenerative nerve and carpal tunnel syndrome problem he had wrestled with through the tour. If you take alook at ELP Live at the royal albert Hall video, you see Emerson rubbing his left wrist with his right arm between songs.) Carl palmer had carpal tunnel syndrome in both arms and had surgey too.
Emerson; `All Greg has to do is go to a vocal coach and train his voice. Here`s man who has a voice and he`s done nothing.' Emerson`s keyboard tech suggested herbal remedies to lake,but the suggesstions only made Lake more obstinate and mean.
By the late `90`s,lake had given up smoking and was singing much better, although his vocas had settled into a baritone style. It was still good,but I prefer the golden tenor years . There were few singers that equalled or surpassed him at the time. His vocals were rich and quite distinctively English.
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Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Postby Mr. Stout » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:07 am

yesman90125 wrote:Greg Lake has sort of developed an "Elvis" syndrome I think
I wonder if he eats bacon on his Peanut butter and jelly sandwitches
Or bad hamburger meat.. I dont think he does the pharmaceuticals.He did put on weight,but not as alarmingly as David Gilmour.
On the last ELP tour in the `90`s, I heard he was drinking heavily and wanted to get out of there.Perhaps Emerson and him werent getting along again(surprise!!). And when arguments about who should produce the new album were happening, lake just resigned from the band, citing creative differences. lake felt the band had the greatest sucess whe he produced the albums, which he did back in the `70`s. Lake felt that by bringing in an oustide producer as they did on the last two albums, the chemistry of the band would be lost.
Emerson and Palmer saw it differently. These were different times and Lake wasn`t automatically entitled to the producers`s role. When emerson and Palmer put up a roadblock,
Lake just gave it up, feeling it was hopeless to continue
But one wonders if Lake really wants to get out there and tour with ELP again.. He did tour solo throughout england in the fall of `05 and another tour was slated for the fall of `06, especially in America, but that was cancelled due to managerial problems.
This is all speculation, but maybe the man has soured on the music business. He has enough to live the rest of his life comfortably, so perhaps he doesnt want to put up with the hassles of managerial problems or being back in a band.
Palmer is with Asia these days, obviously. Emerson will be releasing anew album in the near future and Lake has set up an animal rescue website. Obviously,his biggest priority is no longer music,
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