David Bowie.



David Bowie.

Postby sound_chaser » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:17 am

Or, David Jones as he was once known…until The Monkees hit the big time, that is. Well, I think I know someone here who’s a big fan and I’m definitely a fan myself, so let’s have a discussion on him. Undoubtedly, one of the big influences on rock culture, Bowie has been through so many changes and still continues to deliver the goods today. A great singles artist, as well as albums, what are your favourite Bowie moments? I can tell you without hesitation, that my favourite Bowie album, is the wonderful Hunky Dory. And of course there is a Yes connection in that Rick Wakeman contributed some truly outstanding piano playing. So then…David Bowie.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Kalingzeye » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:33 pm

YES. Finally!! I looooooove Bowie. Love, love, love. Hunky Dory is def my favourite, too, but tbh it's the only full album of his I've ever owned! ...I don't know why, actually, because I love it. I got it when I was young, 12 or something, when I was just buying up all sorts of CDs from older artists... I have the greatest hits CDs tho...? Damn, maybe I should get all his albums now... He ish AMAZING. One of my fav Bowie moments of all time is his role in the Labyrinth. WHAT a movie, & what a soundtrack a la Bowie. I couldn't count how many times I've watched that thing- once I watched it on repeat for 3 days straight during a big drawing stint. They had also considered Mick Jagger for the part... thank GOD they picked who they did. *A* ♥ So uhm. Yeah. Bowie. IS AMAZING. Who doesn't like David Bowie? WHO? I've never met anyone, that's fer sure. *looks around cautiously*
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Chris2210 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:58 pm

sound_chaser wrote:...Well, I think I know someone here who’s a big fan and I’m definitely a fan myself...


I think my ears are burning?

So... how many weeks have you got?

Don't worry I'm not going to say too much for now, except that my own personal favourite is the rather neglected The Man Who Sold the World. Another firm favourite Low, is pretty much recognised as a seminal and massively influential album, but I feel MWStW is equally impressive.

One way of looking at it is that it's rather under the spell of Hendrix (it was purportedly largely arranged by Ronson and Visconti - who put in astonishing performance on guitar and bass, respectively). But along with those heavy rock elements there is quite a progressive edge to the material and a surprising variety of musical genres. It is also inky-dark in mood -prefiguring so much of Goth Rock and Death and Doom Metal, but with a strong underpinning of graveyard humour which is so often absent from those genres as it must be said, it also is largely from Bowie's own subsequent material. The album was released way back in 1970 before Bowie's real breakthrough Ziggy Stardust and.. but also lacks the hits and more general appeal of Hunky Dory which came between them both but was more taken up by his growing fanbase.

I suppose I'm a bit of an old rocker and the heavier (yet still very melodic) nature of MWStW appeals to that side of me. I think the aforementioned bass playing by his then-manager Tony Visconti is also a tour-de-force and I regret he didn't contribute in that role to any of Bowie's future offerings.

For me it is the album that has it all - Bowie's songwriting gift, some superb musicianship, a heavy edge with progressive and groundbreaking content and oodles of wit (it includes for example, an affectionate send-up of his pal Marc Bolan in 'Black Country Rock'). What more could one ask for?
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby sound_chaser » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:29 pm

Wasn't The Man Who Sold The World by Lulu? :) Sorry. No, you're right, it's a great album. We've only got my wifes scratchy old vinyl original, so I must treat us to a new version one of these days.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby N2yes » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:44 am

Great thread and to think, I overlooked this incredible talent. There is so much to be said...God knows. I'm not sure where to even start, but you were ever-so-wise to initiate it, Richard. Personally, I think he got better and better as the years passed. From the bizarre wildness of Ziggy to the mature polished act he remains. What a ride we have all been exposed to at the hands of Mr. Bowie! I will have more to say regarding this legend.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Chris2210 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:42 am

sound_chaser wrote:Wasn't The Man Who Sold The World by Lulu? :) Sorry. No, you're right, it's a great album. We've only got my wifes scratchy old vinyl original, so I must treat us to a new version one of these days.


Funny you should say that.

Whilst I was looking up the album (to check its date of release - late 1970 in the UK) I came across the story of Bowie's chagrin in latter years at being congratulated by young men for being "so cool for performing a Nirvana track". Apparently he shakes their hand and thinks "you little tosser".

If you google the lyrics you'll see them variously attributed to Nirvana, Simple Minds and John "COUGAR" Mellencamp.

Ain't the internet wonderful?
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby sound_chaser » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:10 pm

Chris2210 wrote:Funny you should say that.

Whilst I was looking up the album (to check its date of release - late 1970 in the UK) I came across the story of Bowie's chagrin in latter years at being congratulated by young men for being "so cool for performing a Nirvana track". Apparently he shakes their hand and thinks "you little tosser".

If you google the lyrics you'll see them variously attributed to Nirvana, Simple Minds and John "COUGAR" Mellencamp.

Ain't the internet wonderful?



Now that is funny! Mind you, I did really like Nirvana's version and thought it added brilliantly to the mood of that Unplugged performance, which I also thought was one of the best in that MTV series.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby N2yes » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:22 am

Just thought I would mention this guy's incredible range. Regrettably, it's not heralded very often, but perhaps that's a credit to him. More succinctly put, I don't think he's your typical egocentric roller, but then, there are those who might likely know better. I hope I'm right for if I am, I respect him all the more. Anyone?
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby yesman90125 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:13 pm

Sorry, I dont respect him at all.
I cant turn the dial fast enough when he comes on.
I give him full credit for planting the seeds of punk, new wave and glam
all of which I wish would fall of the face of the earth.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Chris2210 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:46 pm

yesman90125 wrote:Sorry, I dont respect him at all.
I cant turn the dial fast enough when he comes on.
I give him full credit for planting the seeds of punk, new wave and glam
all of which I wish would fall of the face of the earth.


Actually of those, the thing he's arguably most associated with - glam - he was a relatively late entrant to and although an icon in that field he transcended its largely superficial nature.

As for his 'planting the seeds of punk' it's true he was interested and collaborated with some of that movements supposed progenitors (The Velvet Underground/Lou Reed, Iggy and the Stooges), I can't see that he had any direct involvement or direct influence on the movement. The stuff he was doing at the time of that summer of British Punk was much more directly influential on the new wave/new romantics school - although this too was arguably something of his particular filter on the Krautsynth style of music.

Bowie is often credited as being a great innovator, but much as I admire and love his work, I feel that's a little overstated. He is however rightly described as a 'musical chameleon' and is obviously something of a restless spirit. You can look at virtually any musical genre and see his hand in there, but it's generally his take on pre existing forms. One of the best analogies I heard to describe him was as the 'Picasso of pop' - like Picasso he did not originate any particularly form, but took, melded and developed ideas in his own unique way - and usually with a degree of success and popularity that outstripped its other proponents.

I would cite albums such as Man Who Sold The World, Ziggy, Station to Station, Low, Scary Monsters and the criminally underrated Earthling as being not only enjoyable works in themselves but also amongst the best and most important examples of their particular musical genres. I'm afraid to blame him for the shit produced in those styles has all the merit of blaming Puccinni for the crap Andrew Lloyd Webber spews before the public...
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby yesman90125 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:54 pm

Chris2210 wrote:Actually of those, the thing he's arguably most associated with - glam - he was a relatively late entrant to and although an icon in that field he transcended its largely superficial nature.

As for his 'planting the seeds of punk' it's true he was interested and collaborated with some of that movements supposed progenitors (The Velvet Underground/Lou Reed, Iggy and the Stooges), I can't see that he had any direct involvement or direct influence on the movement. The stuff he was doing at the time of that summer of British Punk was much more directly influential on the new wave/new romantics school - although this too was arguably something of his particular filter on the Krautsynth style of music.

Bowie is often credited as being a great innovator, but much as I admire and love his work, I feel that's a little overstated. He is however rightly described as a 'musical chameleon' and is obviously something of a restless spirit. You can look at virtually any musical genre and see his hand in there, but it's generally his take on pre existing forms. One of the best analogies I heard to describe him was as the 'Picasso of pop' - like Picasso he did not originate any particularly form, but took, melded and developed ideas in his own unique way - and usually with a degree of success and popularity that outstripped its other proponents.

I would cite albums such as Man Who Sold The World, Ziggy, Station to Station, Low, Scary Monsters and the criminally underrated Earthling as being not only enjoyable works in themselves but also amongst the best and most important examples of their particular musical genres. I'm afraid to blame him for the shit produced in those styles has all the merit of blaming Puccinni for the crap Andrew Lloyd Webber spews before the public...

I was very into music especialy around the time that Scary Monsters came out. Obviously Ziggy had been overplayed to death already by that time. As much as I like "Wierd" Bowie takes Wierd (and I'm sorry but GAY) too far for me. Maybe it comes down to not liking his voice or much of anything "New Wave".
People will, no doubt continue to rave about his genious long after I'm gone. My Brand of Wierd tends More towards Mr Gabriel or Mr Morrison.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Chris2210 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:30 pm

yesman90125 wrote:I was very into music especialy around the time that Scary Monsters came out. Obviously Ziggy had been overplayed to death already by that time. As much as I like "Wierd" Bowie takes Wierd (and I'm sorry but GAY) too far for me. Maybe it comes down to not liking his voice or much of anything "New Wave".
People will, no doubt continue to rave about his genious long after I'm gone. My Brand of Wierd tends More towards Mr Gabriel or Mr Morrison.


I think maybe there's a slightly different perception of Bowie either side of the pond. I went to an all boys [state, and none-boarding] school in the 70s which was very machismo and anti-gay and even when Bowie was in his most androgynous glam phase and professedly bisexual, somehow it wasn't strongly stigmatised. But then I was shocked by the furore Queen's video for 'I Want to Break Free' was reported to have caused in the US.

Maybe the UK with its Pantomime and other cultural cross-dressing traditions is just more accepting [I wouldn't use the term 'tolerant' I think it's a slightly different attitude]. Personally I thought the whole 'gender bending' thing was a fascinating extension of that holistic artistic approach that Bowie takes.

In any case gender and sexuality are purely social constructs which are essentially exaggerated norms extrapolated from the polar extremes of a very fluid spectrum. Anything that challenges that sort of limiting and damaging cultural rigidity can only be a good thing in my book.

In fact I'd go so far as to say I do find it rather disappointing that Bowie now distances himself somewhat from that stance being something of a born again heterosexual now that he's settled down to a fairly 'usual' domestic situation. Begs the question of whether the whole thing was initially just a manipulative PR stunt, or that he now feels the need to adopt an 'appeasement strategy' for his Muslim in-laws.

I suppose it is rather hard on the guy to deny him the comfort of an unambiguous family life - we should perhaps all be willing to compromise for those we care about.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby yesman90125 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:43 pm

Chris2210 wrote:I think maybe there's a slightly different perception of Bowie either side of the pond. I went to an all boys [state, and none-boarding] school in the 70s which was very machismo and anti-gay and even when Bowie was in his most androgynous glam phase and professedly bisexual, somehow it wasn't strongly stigmatised. But then I was shocked by the furore Queen's video for 'I Want to Break Free' was reported to have caused in the US.

Maybe the UK with its Pantomime and other cultural cross-dressing traditions is just more accepting [I wouldn't use the term 'tolerant' I think it's a slightly different attitude]. Personally I thought the whole 'gender bending' thing was a fascinating extension of that holistic artistic approach that Bowie takes.

In any case gender and sexuality are purely social constructs which are essentially exaggerated norms extrapolated from the polar extremes of a very fluid spectrum. Anything that challenges that sort of limiting and damaging cultural rigidity can only be a good thing in my book.

In fact I'd go so far as to say I do find it rather disappointing that Bowie now distances himself somewhat from that stance being something of a born again heterosexual now that he's settled down to a fairly 'usual' domestic situation. Begs the question of whether the whole thing was initially just a manipulative PR stunt, or that he now feels the need to adopt an 'appeasement strategy' for his Muslim in-laws.

I suppose it is rather hard on the guy to deny him the comfort of an unambiguous family life - we should perhaps all be willing to compromise for those we care about.

I wasn't meaning to make an anti-gay statement, effeminant men-gay or not just turn me off, I'm not against them-just not interested.
I have gay friends but not ones in dresses with makeup-or if they are they are doing it somewhere else.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Chris2210 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:42 am

Chris, I didn't think for a heartbeat you were being anti-gay. Mind you it is a mistake to imagine that men who wear dresses and/or makeup are statistically any more likely to be gay than those that don't. It's a usual conflation of ideas to confuse the concepts of gender variance and homosexuality. There's little or no direct correlation.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby yesman90125 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:09 am

Yeah , I understand the differences.
a friend and I (who is gay) were talking about my comment here today.
he said he thought Bowie was Gay too and that my comment was funny.
we decided Bowie's music is "Gay music"
but he's into Death metal and such (which I also think is Gay)
I hang around 20 somethings often and their slang for anything they think is stupid is to call it "gay" . which took me awhile to catch on to the fact that what they were talking about had nothing to do with homosexuality Their generation is much less hung up about that than ours. I was never really hung up about it myself.
for instance I might say "that sucks" they say "that's Gay"
when I used to tell my kids they were in trouble I would overhear them on the phone saying they couldn't come out becuase "my Dad is being gay"
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Chris2210 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:57 am

Funny that actually reminds of the time, back around '73, I'd heard of Yes, but not actually heard any of their music. One of my friends had bought - I think - Yesterdays. Curious I asked him what they were like. His response was 'Oh, sorta like Bowie - only a bit more poofie..."

I suppose a lot of adolescents would see our faves as "gay" (the expression is used this side of the pond - but I think it's a bit more marginal). ;)
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby tardistraveler » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:16 pm

Saw a replay of the Ziggy Stardust tour last Saturday on the "gay" channel - Logo - lol . . . cool to see though. I've always been a Bowie fan, and one of my great concert regrets is not being able to see that tour . . . they played here in Nashville, and all my friends went, and I could NOT get off that night short of quitting my job, which paid for my concert habit, so I didn't . . . :p

I found out later how amazing it was, and everyone talked about it incessantly . . . :(

Glad it was recorded for posterity . . . :)
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby happytheman » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:56 am

tardistraveler wrote:Saw a replay of the Ziggy Stardust tour last Saturday on the "gay" channel - Logo - lol . . . cool to see though. I've always been a Bowie fan, and one of my great concert regrets is not being able to see that tour . . . they played here in Nashville, and all my friends went, and I could NOT get off that night short of quitting my job, which paid for my concert habit, so I didn't . . . :p

I found out later how amazing it was, and everyone talked about it incessantly . . . :(

Glad it was recorded for posterity . . . :)

I just downloaded a concert from the Spiders from Mars tour 1972. Haven't had time to listen to it yet. But like someone above said, what's not to like about David Bowie. My personal favorite is still the first two Space Oddity and Hunky Dory, both of which Rick played on. An interesting side note, somewhere I read or saw Rick speak of David Bowie. I believe he said that he was the best person he ever played with in a studio. David was so organized and a genius in the studio.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby happytheman » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:58 am

Kalingzeye wrote:YES. Finally!! I looooooove Bowie. Love, love, love. Hunky Dory is def my favourite, too, but tbh it's the only full album of his I've ever owned! ...I don't know why, actually, because I love it. I got it when I was young, 12 or something, when I was just buying up all sorts of CDs from older artists... I have the greatest hits CDs tho...? Damn, maybe I should get all his albums now... He ish AMAZING. One of my fav Bowie moments of all time is his role in the Labyrinth. WHAT a movie, & what a soundtrack a la Bowie. I couldn't count how many times I've watched that thing- once I watched it on repeat for 3 days straight during a big drawing stint.

As far as movies I liked Labyrinth as well, I remember watching that one several times with my daughter. But my personal favorite was the Sci Fi "The man who fell to earth". David was brilliant in that one.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby Kalingzeye » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:02 am

happytheman wrote:As far as movies I liked Labyrinth as well, I remember watching that one several times with my daughter. But my personal favorite was the Sci Fi "The man who fell to earth". David was brilliant in that one.


That one was weiiiiiird!... :p Haven't seen the whole thing, probably the first 75%, but it was pretty interesting / strange. I have it sitting around, I should watch it again...
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby tardistraveler » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:52 pm

I saw "The Man Who Fell to Earth" at the theater when it was first released . . . definitely bizarre, and I'm glad I saw it . . . have it on videotape somewhere . . .

And speaking of sessions, Adrian Belew also did some work with Bowie in the late 80's/early 90's, I believe, and a tour . . . I've got a boot from that tour which is excellent.

Bowie has always surrounded himself with great musicians, it seems.
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Re: David Bowie.

Postby 2Lizard4 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:58 am

We have a few David Bowie dvd, and LOOOOVE to watch them often
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