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YEStalk Discussion Forums • View topic - Yes in the last six years.

Yes in the last six years.



Moderator: N2yes

Yes in the last six years.

Postby chrisroc@io.com » Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:49 pm

I have posted here before. I wanted to offer up a new topic for discussion and open for debate! I have seen Yes in concert 5 times. The first time was the Drama lineup in 1980 then I saw the Yes west lineup twice in '84 and '88. I then saw the Open Your Eyes lineup in '98 and finally the Classic Yes lineup this year. Sticking with the lineups since '98 as we all know that the Drama lineup was not as good as Classic Yes and while the Yes West lineup was pretty good albeit more commercial it could not over come Trevor Rabins massive ego therefore it died after '94.I also will not comment on the Union Tour lineup as I never saw them in concert and I thought the Union album was a general disjointed mess especially the Keyboard situation! It is worth noting that when Yes Was playing again with Tony Kaye on the Yes West albums that he went back to playing only the simple keyboards like the piano and the Hammond organ unlike Rick who always played synthesizers and other things as well. Tony never wanted to play the kind of keyboards that Rick Wakeman did and does that people like Patrick Moraz and Geoff Downes also played. This influenced there sound on Yes West to where it did not sound as complicated as when Rick played with them. Anaway getting back to the lineups since '98 or actually within the last six years I thought that when the Classic Yes lineup got back together in '96 that was great! I thought that the music on the Keys albums was great especially the Studio stuff which I think is the best stuff they have done next to Magnification maybe even better than that album. Yes one could argue that the really classic Yes lineup would be the one with Bill Bruford that did The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close To The Edge. Maybe the lineup with Alan White did not produce anything that classic but they did some pretty good stuff especially GFTO! Anaway when Rick left again after Keys I think Yes got into a prolonged period of being sidetracked from that Classic sound by getting Igor and Especially Billy Sherwood. Open Your Eyes while pretty good sounded a little too much like they were trying to sound current for the late nineties and the Ladder was pretty much the same way with Billy Sounding like he was hardly used or needed! But still a pretty good album even if the last track sounds like a remake of All Good People with a very similar guitar riff! Not a very original idea! All in all Yes sounding like they were trying to do the World Music sounding thing. I will not comment on House of Blues cause I still have not heard it. Then we have Magnification with an orchestra for the first time since TAAW from 1970. Much better sounding than TAAW and almost classic Yes certainly better than OYE or TL but something was still missing. Flash forward to this summer and the Classic Yes Tour 2002. Finally getting to see for the first time imo the definitve Yes lineup I knew what had been missing for the last six years Rick and his Keyboards! I am sorry as much as I like TAAW and even better Mag with an orchestra I'd rather here Rick and his keys any day! I look forward to what they will do in the future and can't wait to hear a new studio album with Rick! Again I say Mag is better than OYE or TL but in the last six years my pick would be Rick and the Keys stuff. I finally feel like Yes has gotten back to the way things should have been all along! Think how much better albums we would have gotten in the last six years if he had never left and probably better tours too! Yes I understand now why things happened the way they did but I still stand by what I have said. This is the Yes for the ages they have come back full circle with the five musicians who imo belong together and who should have always been together since that moment in '72 when Alan White replaced Bill Bruford to become as some have said lately The Yes Drummer the definitive one for the last thirty years! So I want to know what other people think. Did Yes get sidetracked after Rick left and did they only get back there classic sound even though they did some pretty decent albums after '96 when he finally came back on board I think for good this time!I live here in Austin Texas and if Yes chose to wait four years before coming back to Austin the last time I saw them at the same place I saw them this time I am glad that Rick was with them again so I could see and hear him perform with them as I never got too before then! This should make for a great and exciting topic I think! Gentlemen ladies let the games begin!!

<hr>Chris E. Smith
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Postby chrisroc@io.com » Thu Oct 10, 2002 2:37 pm

Btw I am replying to my won posting to say that I did not comment on ABWH group because they were not truly and totally classic Yes and they were not really Yes West either. They only made one studio album unless you count that mess called Union or as some people on this group like to refer to it as Onion. I don't know why they do and maybe I don't get the joke of it either! They were not even allowed to use the name Yes! The rest of Yeswest retained that right even though they put nothing new out in '89! Of course after Union came Yeswest again and Talk Mainly Trevors baby from start to finish and thankfully imo his last album with Yes! You see there have been only Three Guitar players in Yes since '69 besides Billy who I don't count because he was hardly used in the studio but mostly on tour where he seemed to me to be a Trevor Rabin clone! He would play the guitar stuff that Steve refused to play! He could also sing decent backup and that is about all the things I thought he was good for IMO! Yes has never needed two guitar players and Steve does not want to share the spotlight with another guitar player besides what Jon Anderson can do! Peter Banks was more a mellow and Jazzier guitar player who lost interest in playing when the orchestra on TAAW dominated!They also say he became more interested in shopping for clothes than rehearsing with Yes! Trevor Rabin may play faster than Steve but I think Steve is the best Guitar player Yes has ever had and all they need! Anybody care to argue or dispute this go right ahead!

<hr>Chris E. Smith
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Postby YesJo » Thu Oct 10, 2002 8:20 pm

Hi Chris, I pretty much agree with you!!!! Not a big fan of Drama, Union or much of Yeswest, I was very happy with the Keys sound, and everything you said about Billy Sherwood sounds right. Also, I agree with you about Rick, they need him to have the classic Yes sound, I totally agree. They were on the right track with Igor, and I love the Ladder, but now that Rick is back they have come full circle and all is right with the world. I hope they continue to play their beautiful music for us, and even put out some new music with the best line up there ever was.
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Postby YesJo » Thu Oct 10, 2002 8:21 pm

I also agree with you about Magnification, I like the album but I would rather hear Rick and more of Steve, Chris and Alan, than the orchestra.
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Postby ycantibu » Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:29 am

I have a very hard time believing Trevor Rabin's ego is any more massive or responsible for his leaving after Talk, than Chris Squire's or Jon Anderson's. :)

<hr>you can't drink on an eight hour flight, pass out, and then go onstage...well you can, but then you're spandau ballet. - robert smith of the cure
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Postby Stoutman » Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:46 am

Chris Roc,welcome to the site. I hope you don`t talk in that irritating voice like that comedian.
OYE,to me,was embarassing. They are much better than that and they proved so on `The ladder'. It also helped that they had a strong producer. Bruce Fairburn molded them into a team and no one`s ego was getting in the way.
I thought Magnification was pointless. I got the feeling that these guys were pissed off at all the keyboard players thay have had in the band and decided,`Well, we will show them !!! We don`t need a keyboard player. That was the element they were sorely lacking on that album. And I just felt it was an experiment they had tried beore 31 years ago. and it didn`t work. But that`s just me and I know most people here love Time and a Word and Mag
And I have to agree with Y. I don`t think Rabin left due to ego. He wasn`t getting on with Jon and he probaly figured, `What`s the point if this guy is going to fight me on everything? Speaking of egos, Anderson can hold his own, and he will be the first to admit it. And Talk was a great album for him to leave after. This is Yes west at their best and it`s truly a great, underrated album.
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Postby Ed1909 » Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>chrisroc@io.com wrote:</b>
that mess called Union or as some people on this group like to refer to it as Onion. I don't know why they do and maybe I don't get the joke of it either!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Chris,

The 'Onion' reference started with Rick Wakeman because he said that every time he hears that album, it makes him cry!


<hr>High vibration go on... <img src=pix/icon_yes_talis.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby NineLives » Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:47 pm



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>chrisroc@io.com wrote:</b>
It is worth noting that when Yes Was playing again with Tony Kaye on the Yes West albums that he went back to playing only the simple keyboards like the piano and the Hammond organ unlike Rick who always played synthesizers and other things as well. Tony never wanted to play the kind of keyboards that Rick Wakeman did and does that people like Patrick Moraz and Geoff Downes also played. This influenced there sound on Yes West to where it did not sound as complicated as when Rick played with them. <hr>Chris E. Smith
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Actually, Tony Kaye played VERY little on 90125, Big Generator, (YesWest portion of)Union, and Talk. 95% of the keyboard parts on these albums were done by Trevor Rabin. This has been well-documented in the Chris Welch book "Close To The Edge," as well as in "Yes: In Their Own Words." Trevor Horn didn't want Tony Kaye to play a solitary note in leiu of Rabin's ability. Rabin, who liked Kaye as a person, made room for Tony's Hammond work. But as I said before - very, VERY little - and nothing compared to the contributions Tony made to the first three Yes albums.

Side note: This led to "unseen backstage keyboard players" on the 9012Live and Big Generator tours. To quote Steve, that's very "un-Yes."

--Nine <img src=pix/icon_yes_mover.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby aswas96 » Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:51 pm

i hope that rick will hang around for a studio album, but highly unlikely. pretty much the last 2 studios he has done with yes was half him and half computer. he was very upset the way that "union" turned out, saying that half his sounds were manipulated. he threw his copy out the limo the first time he heard the finished product. he had alot of imput in "keys", but wasnt there for the final mix. he was halfway around the globe. i would love to see him and jon work in the studio together again. i question ricks patience level, as we know how the band is democratic to a fault in their descision making with chord patterns, variations, the complexity that has made yes the best prog rock band ever. lets hope he does.

<hr>djt
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Postby yesman90125 » Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:46 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Ed1909 wrote:</b>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>chrisroc@io.com wrote:</b>
that mess called Union or as some people on this group like to refer to it as Onion. I don't know why they do and maybe I don't get the joke of it either!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Chris,

The 'Onion' reference started with Rick Wakeman because he said that every time he hears that album, it makes him cry!


<hr>High vibration go on... <img src=pix/icon_yes_talis.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
steve howe makes mention of the album being called onion in his guitar collection book as well
I actaully like the album alot though i dont really listen to it much anymore
I think its the lyrical content that is most attractive to me

<hr>"I'd rather trust a man who works with his hands.
He looks at you once, you know he understands. You don't need any shield when your out in the field."
(Peter Gabriel)
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Postby N2yes » Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:15 am

<font color=red><font face='Papyrus'>Welcome Chrisroc@io.com and Aswas, welcome to YEStalk, the very finest of YES fan-atic sites to be found anywhere! You have found yourself amongst the brightest, most knowledgeable and receptive of all YES officianados to be gathered in one cyber-spot! We are glad to have you both join our ranks!

I would offer just a slightly varying view on <i>DRAMA</i> as I find it to be a stellar effort! <i>THE LADDER</i> is very close to being my favorite YES album, I simply can't get enough of it. There can be no question that Fairbairn had a great deal to do with that wonderful sound, at least IMHO. To me, <i>MAGNIFICATION</i> is an essential step in the evolution of YES. The sound is simple yet complex, hard at times but with polished edges and Jon's singing is tremendous throughout. It took a few listens but I learned to appreciate it quite a bit. And, as I have said innumerable times, YES without Alan White is simply unfathomable! Tony Kaye has been treated so poorly I hate to even discuss his honorable name in the same breath ( Long live BADGER!! ). Oh well, that's my rant in a seriously encapsulated form.

Again, I welcome you both to YEStalk and look forward to your many posts!</font id='Papyrus'></font id=red><img src=pix/icon_yes_talis.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_yes2.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>"Beginning is one place I've been before"
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Postby childlikesouldreamer » Sun Nov 17, 2002 12:02 am

I agree with you about THE LADDER, N2YES, it is an album bursting with musical vitality and lyrical strength. I hear it as their best since GFTO, and was delighted when I first bought it and got into it. My joy turned to mild disappointment when I later found that Moraz offered to do the keyboards, but was turned down for the role by the band. I just LOVE his keys on RELAYER, and wish he would come back at least just once. Though, it must be said that Igor did a good job on the keys.
Anyway, now that Wakeman is back, I guess they won't go for something like it in their next studio project if RW is on it. But the reason why I like THE LADDER so much (which I prefer to call 'homeworld') is because it seems to combine a classic YES sound with the energy of their eighties stuff. At least, that's how I hear it.

By the way, I used to be 'Nigel' in this forum and in fact still am!
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Postby HeartOfTheSunrise » Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:35 am

welcome newbies
some great stuff said
i agree with most
right now, where i am, i am listening to magnification a lot more than i thought i would be, and, in fact, listening to it a lot more since the concerts this summer, than before

the ladder was the first YES cd i bought of any YES album made after 90125

that means i had not heard big generator, talk, union, open your eyes, keys one or two

clearly my musical interest was somewhere else in the eighties and nineties and since i bought the ladder, i went back and bought everything i didn't have
and have not stopped listening "religiously" to YES since - like in the seventies

so the ladder brought me back home

i like what was said about Keys here, especially keys 2 i feel is getting ripped too negatively in YEStalk world

Minddrive and the rest of the studio songs is like good oldtime YES and the lyrics aren't poppish

my time is about up here, but i wanted to greet the new guys and thank them for their input already

peace
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Postby guilddigger » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:43 am

<font face='Comic Sans MS'>now that rick is back and touring, the real yes is back on the horse. if rick decides to stay to do another album or two, they have every chance to take off from the stepping stone the keys albums were and really come up with something amazing.</font id='Comic Sans MS'>

<hr><img src="http://home.att.net/~dahni725/vampire.gif" border=0>

stay awaken
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Postby qman » Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:13 am

<font color=red><font size=3>IMHO - The Ladder rules, best album they have done since GFTO. Don't get me wrong I love a lot of the material released between and after GFTO and The Ladder it's just The Ladder is so well Produced and the writing is exceptional. Fresh and exciting YES. Bruce leaving planet earth was a terrible blow to YES. </font id=size3></font id=red>
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Postby tribute1969 » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:34 am

I still think to apex of the past 6 years has to be the interviews and 2 song "concert performance??" on THE HOWARD STERN/E! SHOW in 1996 the day prior to KEYS I release. This the show where NOTHING went right, no microphones, no guitar pickup for Steve, Rick telling Howard he was so out of it in the 70's that sometimes he was playing a completely different song in concert than the rest of the band and saying he thought sometimes he was in THE BEATLES.....he was just kidding Howard about THE BEATLES part....anyhow, Howard goes on THE TIRADE of his career since he IS A BIG YES FAN AND was so embarrashed by how things worked out. The band took it ALL the chaos in good humor but it has to be the WORST performance they have ever given through no fault of their own!! I have the audio of this "performance" but am LUSTING "EXORBITANTLY (SORRY, I'M NO yes guru!)for a copy of the VIDEO of this E! show...any ideas?? where I can get my LUSTFUL hands on a copy??[url][/url]<img src="" border=0>
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Postby childlikesouldreamer » Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:36 pm

I agree with qman about THE LADDER. It IS the best thing since GFTO. It's a delight every time I hear it. I want to hear more stuff like this. With Wakeman back now though, I'm not so sure if it could happen. Why oh why do YES sometimes pick up on a great musical theme only to drop it later? Noone could deny that RELAYER and THE LADDER are both great albums, so why did they just leave both musical approaches behind so easily? I know that Bruce Fairbairn sadly passed away, but they surely have that ability now to pursue these musical lines. THE LADDER has the sound of 'classic' YES plus the energy of their eighties material - surely a great double-pronged approach! MAGNIFICATION is good, but they so easily moved onto something else with this one.
I mean, it's good because they could explore something else and YES have always done that. But THE LADDER has such a great sound. If the sound of the next album goes back to 'classic' again, in the style of KTA, as I think it will if Wakeman is around, I hope they can put something of the dynamism of THE LADDER into it, much as the 'same old' classic sound is respected.

<hr>'After all, your soul will still surrender.'
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Postby thrill » Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:24 am

Yes in the last six years.....

Well they certainly have gone through some changes. I really enjoy The Ladder, as an album it flows and sounds good start to finish. They should work with another big name producer. Fairbain did a great job. If they would have had a producer for Keys, wow those songs could be even better. Too bad Wakeman didn't hang around for the final mix because it seems alot of his parts got buried. Again a good producer would have helped---Billy Sheerwood? They need better. Open Your Eyes---bad choice. But I think they are finding and returning to the True YES sound. Magnification was a good start. It seems a bit rushed and lacking some guitar soloing--but the songs are right there. Let's hope they take the money they make from this long stint of touring and go into the studio w/Wakeman and a good producer. Maybe they should let Rick choose one this time. Hopefully the box set of live stuff coming out next year will give them time to rest, write, and record.
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Postby N2yes » Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:25 am

<font color=red><font face='Papyrus'>Welcome to YEStalk, thrill! It's a pleasure to have you join us here. You have found yourself amongst a multitude of friends, all sharing in the same fanatical appreciation of this most stellar of bands! There is so much to discover here so please feel free to explore the many forums and should you require any assistance navigating, don't hesitate to ask. We'll be glad to help!

Again, we welcome you!</font id='Papyrus'></font id=red><img src=pix/icon_yes_talis.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_yes2.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>"Beginning is one place I've been before"
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Postby thrill » Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:57 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>N2yes wrote:</b>
<font color=red><font face='Papyrus'>Welcome to YEStalk, thrill! It's a pleasure to have you join us here. You have found yourself amongst a multitude of friends, all sharing in the same fanatical appreciation of this most stellar of bands! There is so much to discover here so please feel free to explore the many forums and should you require any assistance navigating, don't hesitate to ask. We'll be glad to help!

Again, we welcome you!</font id='Papyrus'></font id=red><img src=pix/icon_yes_talis.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_yes2.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>"Beginning is one place I've been before"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>


Hello and thanks for the welcome!! I like this forum alot. Great to be able to discuss and get excited about the world of Yes music. I would like to recommend to you if you haven't already heard them: Marillion, Spock's Beard, and The Flower Kings. Spock's Beard recently did a great cover version of Yes' South Side Of The Sky on the limited edition bonus disc to their new double CD "Snow". Some great music for you to check out. Again, thanks for the warm welcome.

<hr>
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Postby every1is1 » Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:12 pm

I've really enjoyed the last 6 years of Yes. I'm not very picky and even OYE is fine by me. I just wish they would put out music more frequently. Afterall, it's not like they have to worry about overdoing it and becoming overkill. Only their hardcore fans listen and buy their music anyways. I'd like an album every year, even if it consisted of only 40 minutes of music: kinda like the old days of LPs. And I'm talking about new music, not this rereleasing of previously rereleased stuff that has already been released a handful of times.
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Postby theproffet » Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:23 pm

<font color=blue>Thrill, nice to meet ya, but I have to make some points!


The first album, with Peter Banks is somewhat jazzish, but not mellow, I feel it's an understated classic. I'm a Steve nut, but for what he added to the songwriting. Bank's addition to the band gave Steve a great start, as he will readily admit. I'm the odd man out here, but I think the orignal Yes line up was damn impressive . . .

I do like Mag, it's a return to roots, really. But I'd like to see less Jon on the next album . . .</font id=blue><img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr><font color=red>"Hope I die before I turn into Pete Townsend."</font id=red> <font color=blue> Kurt Cobain, in his recently published diaries</font id=blue>
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Postby childlikesouldreamer » Tue Nov 26, 2002 5:21 pm

every1is1,

First of all, welcome to YEStalk!

I guess we'd all love to see an album every year. But considering the age of these guys, it's phenomenal that they're giving us an album every two years, PLUS tours, PLUS solo projects! You mention having shorter albums once a year like in the old days, but one compensation of CD format is that it really allows more music to be released; both THE LADDER and MAGNIFICATION are a generous 60 minutes long. The old vinyl LPs carried a max of about 45 mins as I recall, with very few exceptions above this. Cult bands like YES have become generous with their music since CD came along.

What I would like to see is more collaboration between existing (and previous) members - like the 'solo album period' in the mid-seventies; eg. Moraz and Bruford on Squire's solo project. Even if they appeared on each other's albums for just a track or two, it would make it so much more interesting for us. And give them the increased sales they want.

<hr>'After all, your soul will still surrender.'
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Postby childlikesouldreamer » Tue Nov 26, 2002 5:26 pm

every1is1,

Sorry! Thought you were new! I was away for three months, and I obviously forgot you. If you've been away yourself, then welcome back!

<hr>'After all, your soul will still surrender.'
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Postby every1is1 » Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>childlikesouldreamer wrote:</b>
every1is1,

Sorry! Thought you were new! I was away for three months, and I obviously forgot you. If you've been away yourself, then welcome back!

<hr>'After all, your soul will still surrender.'
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hey, don't mention it. Actually, it's quite nice when people think you're younger than you really are. Yep, I'm an old timer around these parts. Not ancient like Prof, N2 and the like, but old nonetheless.

You're absolutely right about the new material containing at least 60 minutes of material and the fact that we're lucky to have an album and tours every couple of years. Indeed, I'm counting my blessings. Have a good day, child.
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Postby happytheman » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:13 am

I too find that Tony Kaye has had enough.... thrown at him, his contributions to the first three albums speaks volumes.
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Postby fragilesi » Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:08 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>happytheman wrote:</b>
I too find that Tony Kaye has had enough.... thrown at him, his contributions to the first three albums speaks volumes.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I agree, I think that Tony brought a lot to Yes and has made a lasting contribution. But Yes fans can be pretty damning in their condemnation when his only real fault is that those that followed have eclipsed him by some considerable distance.

Simon.
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Postby Niall » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:13 pm

I think Yes are heading in the right direction now. Their last two albums are very solid. It looks like the band have left behind their strong wish for hit singles, like they tried on Open Your Eyes, and hopefully they won't try to just replicate the return to the classic seventies sound like they did on Keys To Ascension. I look forward to what they will release next from the studio.
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