The ongoing YES Marketing Disaster



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Postby yeskat » Tue Sep 11, 2001 3:28 am

Khatru,
I think you may have a very good point there! I've always wondered if Yes is just "too nice" or "too spiritual" for the masses who seem to have their minds in the gutters! <img src=pix/icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> Yes soars ABOVE them...
However, my optimistic side keeps hoping that some may AWAKEN and partake of the beauty that is <img src=pix/icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>!
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Postby Khatru » Tue Sep 11, 2001 3:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>yeskat wrote:</b>
However, my optimistic side keeps hoping that some may AWAKEN and partake of the beauty that is <img src=pix/icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Well, that would be the ideal, and I trust that we are ultimately headed in that direction. I know that every one that I've turned on to YES is better off for it on a spirit level, so, I'll continue that persuit. If they're not ready, then maybe someday they will be. Peace bro'
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Postby Chris2210 » Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:10 pm

Well I am high on the new album at the moment so maybe I'm being overly optimistic but... The material is in my opinion so strong that some sort of buzz will start to build after the album starts getting positive reviews from the music press over here in the UK.

By the time it's eventually released in the States that might actually translate into some media attention (and of course albumn sales) and hopefully halt the downward spiral into obscurity our heroes have been facing for a while.
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Postby relayer4u » Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:37 pm

The most reasonable explanation why Europe has Magnification now, and we don't, is that Yes is planning to alter their set list to include more of the new songs on the European tour. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that Starship Trooper and Gates of Delirium would be the songs that get replaced, or Perpetual Change. I don't think the band would discard CTTE as the opener and Ritual is too powerful to give up also. I hope I'm wrong, but the December US release would work out nicely for the 2nd US leg, playing the modified set list. <img src=pix/icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Chris2210 » Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>relayer4u wrote:</b>
The most reasonable explanation why Europe has Magnification now, and we don't, is that Yes is planning to alter their set list to include more of the new songs on the European tour. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that Starship Trooper and Gates of Delirium would be the songs that get replaced, or Perpetual Change. I don't think the band would discard CTTE as the opener and Ritual is too powerful to give up also. I hope I'm wrong, but the December US release would work out nicely for the 2nd US leg, playing the modified set list. <img src=pix/icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'd love to hear more of the new album live, but please god, DON'T LET THEM DROP GATES!!! I would have a nervous breakdown, I've never seen it live.
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Postby frankh » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:20 am

How wonderful was the reading in this thread.How sad to see the discourse, which I am able to assure one and all with an at least reasonable sense of certainty that I will not be able to elevate, cease on the day which it did...

So many things have changed since the last post.

Some things have not changed.

My take, and a few had touched upon it here.There really is only one sure fire method to taking Yes to ears which haven't heard, or are unwilling to do so.We must do it.

Previous commercial success by Yes was almost an accidental thing, created by forces which no longer exist in the musical marketplace.This was correctly diagnosed by above posters...from what are now so many years ago...

Accidental, but wonderful.The seventies were such a different time!There were real musicians attaining success with real music the likes of which have seldom been seen since.At the time, remember the musical landscape was even then being described as barren.How well have we since learned the wisdom in the words "you don't know what you got 'til it's gone"?

Even the mixed blessing of the 80's and Owner came as a total surprise to fans of the band.Was there an element of calculation in that success?Sure, probably.However, what it did was allow Yes to continue to the present.

Is there any possibility of further success in the market for Yes?

Yes, but highly unlikely, at least through any means that we are aware of at this time as being conventional.

Yes always were about the unlikely!

The best way to go about it is to declare ourselves, as many if not all of us are doing, have always done, to be on a mission.We are on a mission to make sure there will be no forgetting.Anyone who seems a likely candidate for Yesmusic who has not heard them or has dismissed them out of hand, MUST hear them!

The radio stations won't play them?We could "serial request"!

The record stores won't stock adequately?We must send Yesmusic out into the very air ourselves, and do it often!

We have to rededicate ourselves to this task!Work harder at it and on it than ever before!

Our world requires Yesmusic!Now more than ever!

I have always "turned people on" to Yesmusic.Today, I vow to start to do so with a renewed vigor.

Please join me!Together, we can do this!
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Postby frankh » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:41 pm

Word of mouth.If must needs be, then shall it be done ( suddenly feel like Yul Brynner as Ramses in The Ten Commandments, "So let it be written.So let it be done!"...)...my little accomplishment for this week:Personally, I have persuaded three or four people who would not otherwise have attended, but also not otherwise -known- about the gig, to attend Steve Howe solo nearby on Thursday evening.

Nice that I'm actually following my own advice, isn't it?
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Postby gingerbaker » Mon May 29, 2006 4:28 pm

It is hard to market a poor or mediocre product.The albums in the 70's were great and they all sold well. The live shows were almost all sellouts until Tormato. Nothing they have done since AWBH around 1990 has sold well because the albums were not that good. If they never released CTTE or Relayer or Fragile or GFTO or Tales or Yes Album and they kept them in the closet till today and released any of these now they would sell a million copies and sellout a 13,000 seat stadium.

Also, it is no coincidence that most of the great Yes albums had Wakeman on them. The exceptions being the Yes Album, Relayer and 90125.

Marketing only takes you so far. It is difficult to market a poor product.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Mon May 29, 2006 6:11 pm

gingerbaker wrote: If they never released CTTE or Relayer or Fragile or GFTO or Tales or Yes Album and they kept them in the closet till today and released any of these now they would sell a million copies and sellout a 13,000 seat stadium.

I would like to think so, but times are different now - the largest demographic of music purchasers don't want now what we wanted in 1975.

gingerbaker wrote: Also, it is no coincidence that most of the great Yes albums had Wakeman on them. The exceptions being the Yes Album, Relayer and 90125.

I think their greatest album was Relayer - their greatest album didn't have Wakeman on it! :D

gingerbaker wrote: Marketing only takes you so far. It is difficult to market a poor product.

Ain't that the truth.

Hey, it sure is good to see you here, gingerbaker. :D
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Postby joshtheyesfan » Tue May 30, 2006 7:28 pm

i think that the word of mouth factor is pretty important. lord knows that they will NEVER sell a million records, but with good music, comes good word of mouth. look at the arcade fire, they come out with an amazing album, and in a year they are headlining music festivals.
as i've said before, i happened upon YES because of a very flukey curiousity one year ago (their mention in School of Rock, thanks to my trust in Jim o'Rourke who was musical advisor for that film) . I was blown away...I have since turned YES on to 3 or more people. I know that if they somehow focus on the yes album-drama period, the same music loving crowd that adores bands like flaming lips, etc. will latch on to YES which can take the band to their final zenith, which could also be their most rewarding. they arent going to sell a million, but i'm telling you, perform anything from 'tales' live and you'll have thousands of indie kids worshipping this amazing band.
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Postby fragilesi » Tue May 30, 2006 8:46 pm

Josh I love reading stuff like this.

After a Fragile show a coupleof years ago I was amazed to hear from a friend that their teenage daughter had started a thriving Yes club at her Sixth Form. They had twenty odd teenagers listening to Yes in a Sixth Form Common Room.

Nice to think about but turning massive numbers onto the music would take something completely amazing.
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Postby joshtheyesfan » Wed May 31, 2006 12:36 am

i just dont know how tough it would be though...

take the case of the beach boys, ten years ago, people my age were laughing at me when i told them that i LOVED them. i played them friends, and the smile pieces and they were blown away. now every band and their mothers try to sound like them. and all of the sudden, they are 'hip' again.

i just read a review off the new 'loose fur' album and the critic made references to YES. so who knows...some more name dropping, a few more years and bands might be releasing some rip-off TFTO type songs...of course, this is best case scenario-perfect world stuff, but cant a guy dream?
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Postby fragilesi » Wed May 31, 2006 12:09 pm

Josh, only one answer to your question . . . YES!

Dream on . . .
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The BEach Boys:An interesting point -

Postby frankh » Wed May 31, 2006 1:20 pm

How attitudes and opinions can change.

I used to detest The Beach Boys.No reason for it, really.Just did(The Dead, too and I wound up eating proverbial crow with them as well - but that's another story, for another day).So, I was in San Diego courtesy of Uncle Sam(US Navy) and there's a baseball game, the Padres against the Phillies, early 1980's.After the game, a concert.Well, I was interested in the game!The Phillies at that time had Mike Schmidt, Pete Rose, and were about to win a world championship, somewhere right in that time frame.

Fifty thousand plus attended.The old Jack Murphy Stadium.Beautiful day, as so many of them are in that area.Out come The Beach Boys.They fit more two minute songs into that set, one right after the other!Not even all of the tunes were theirs.They were covering The Everly's, Little Richard, everybody.

Around their stage setup on the infield were nine large black speaker boxes.Almost huge they were.One of these was, I'm pretty certain, a prop because by the near end of the show it was --- on fire!At one point, amidst conga lines hundreds of humans in length, I stopped my what passes for dancing because I thought I felt, and the sudden lack of my own motion confirmed this, the whole house was shaking.Rocking!

Needless to say, it was a great, great show.Found myself mentally bonking myself in the head, thinking, "Boy, was I wrong about these guys!"

I love when I'm wrong in this manner!Loved The Beach Boys ever since.Those may still be the sweetest harmonies ever to emerge from pop music.Few have vied, or even come close to it.

If Yes were to "get their act together", I believe it is entirely possible that they could strike at least one more notch into their collective belts with a new classic.So much still going for them.Jon's voice now better than ever.Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman in one band - the second leg of the 2004 tour - someone had the brilliant idea of sitting them together for the acoustic set at 45 degree angles to one another.Watching them both up there, well you just knew you were in the presence of not merely greatness, but dare I say it?Immortality.

The Chris Squire/Alan White rhythm section.

All this still available to them as a band to turn to their own advantage.What needs to happen is some lightning stroke of inspiration.

Yes needs the world to listen, but more than that, the world needs Yes to hear.
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Postby joshtheyesfan » Wed May 31, 2006 8:41 pm

i was about 7 at the time, but i was at that beach boy show, too!
i remember brian wilson sitting motionless at a piano and someone was sitting next to him the entire time...brian wilson...now THAT is a comeback!
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Postby Thoughtbecontact » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:21 am

Roan's Lady wrote:I would like to think so, but times are different now - the largest demographic of music purchasers don't want now what we wanted in 1975.


I think their greatest album was Relayer - their greatest album didn't have Wakeman on it! :D


Ain't that the truth.

Hey, it sure is good to see you here, gingerbaker. :D


Oh dear gawd, Amy, don't get him started on his dear Wakey! I mean, that would almost be as bad as getting him started on his beloved Maestro! LOOOOL!
AWAKEN/GENTLE/MASS/TOUCH
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Postby happytheman » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:55 pm

frankh wrote:How attitudes and opinions can change.



If Yes were to "get their act together", I believe it is entirely possible that they could strike at least one more notch into their collective belts with a new classic.So much still going for them.Jon's voice now better than ever.Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman in one band - the second leg of the 2004 tour - someone had the brilliant idea of sitting them together for the acoustic set at 45 degree angles to one another.Watching them both up there, well you just knew you were in the presence of not merely greatness, but dare I say it?Immortality.

The Chris Squire/Alan White rhythm section.

All this still available to them as a band to turn to their own advantage.What needs to happen is some lightning stroke of inspiration.

Yes needs the world to listen, but more than that, the world needs Yes to hear.

I found that segment of the 35th tour DVD my favorite. It showed me the "lighter" side of Yes. They can laugh! They always came off so "serious" anytime I saw them on stage. And as I have mentioned here before, one of the few times I brought someone with me to see Yes in an effort to "turn him on" to the band, at the intermission he turned to me and said "What a bunch of ego maniacs!" He later admitted they were incredible musicians but could not stand their "pompous, holier than thou" presence on stage. But back to my original point, they hit on something with the acoustic bit. Re-doing some of their "classics" for a more informal setting should have spurned them to write some more classic material but here we are several years later asking the same questions.
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Postby frankh » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:35 pm

joshtheyesfan wrote:i was about 7 at the time, but i was at that beach boy show, too!
i remember brian wilson sitting motionless at a piano and someone was sitting next to him the entire time...brian wilson...now THAT is a comeback!


Josh!!!YOU were there?!?!

We-heh-hell!This alone gives us something to talk about (and I suspect that this is ... not the lone thing!)!!

Really was a great show, huh Josh!They certainly made a convert of me at that point!
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Postby gingerbaker » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:32 pm

Thoughtbecontact wrote:Oh dear gawd, Amy, don't get him started on his dear Wakey! I mean, that would almost be as bad as getting him started on his beloved Maestro! LOOOOL!



Well, Relayer was a great album. Definitely in the top 5 IMO. I do not rate it as the best though because Gates is IMO a great song but not "quite" as good ass Awaken,CTTE and Ritual. Therefore i place it just a hair below those albums but just a hair. :)
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Postby Chris2210 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:53 pm

That's a good point about the Beach Boys. I always quite liked them, even through the seventies when they were very uncool and seemingly dead, but didn't know much more than the well-known hits (from a compilation my brother owned).

I really got very into them only a few years ago and my joy was sealed when Wilson finally realised the masterpiece Smile. I hadn't been waiting for it anywhere near as long as the band's long-term fans, but I was blown away by how fantastic a work that is.

Wilson's reputation has very slowly built (from his time in obscurity)- I don't think that has translated into the gigantic commercial success he deserves (I personally think Smile is a record every self-respecting muso should have in their collection). The acknowledgement of his musical genius does seem now to be firmly assured. I'd like to think the same could happen for the Anderson/Howe/Yes collective - the work deserves to endure. Only time will tell.
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Postby sound_chaser » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:56 am

Chris: fancy a chat about SMiLE over at AT?
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Postby Chris2210 » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:10 pm

sound_chaser wrote:Chris: fancy a chat about SMiLE over at AT?


Absolutely - just noticed your Muse review, too. I've been meaning to pick that one up...
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