The ongoing YES Marketing Disaster



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Postby johnruuu » Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:59 pm

I am new to the site but not to YES. I look forward to meeting some of you in New York.

This is a most impressive site and I personally want to thank Ed for keeping it very much alive. There may be more hits and overall activity on this site than on the YESWORLD site--over 1.2 million hits from what I can see so far. I think that you should keep this in mind moving your thoughts forward within the context of Ed's thread.

There is allot of tough talk out there about the future direction etc.. of the band.

Let's talk tough...

YES's contract (I believe since around 1997/1998) has been owned by the Left Bank Organization. Anyone know who they are. I know who they are.

Their official website, as you all know, is YESWORLD. Please note the recent changes to the YESWORLD website September 03, now including a LEGAL section that was not there before. Read it carefully. It may bring you a clue, or two, as to what might be happening behind the scenes.

I am going to go to a lateral point for now and will tie things in later. Perhaps it will have to be in person in New York or via email... Will YES ever be in the R&R Hall of Fame? And should they be? I want some old timers answers and reasoning before I give you my two or three cents.

OK back to the Ed thread.

Their current management firm is seriously sub par in so many respects. However, that may be a YES trademark in itself.

I assure you that LBO is confused and are absolutely looking for a 'no additional cost way to survive'. The only thread of continued survival is that they are owned by a small/medium record label--Beyond Music. So, it is a supposed to be a complete management package/deal. For example Magnification will be released in the US, eventually, by Beyond Music.

Many people (most fans) agree that a serious change is in order.

Who then will organize a new and remarkable business plan for YES and present it to the long standing members of the band?

Thats it for now. Write me.


JR
"The Power of Positive Thinking"
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Postby fragilesi » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Ed Schaum wrote:</b>
Nah, I'm not buying it, Simon. Sounds like spin control to me. The tour started in July, and now they're not releasing the album until almost SIX MONTHS later.

What happened, did someone just NOW come up with the idea of marketing for Christmas. Baloney. It's another case of someone not thinking ahead, not planning properly.
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Whoa! For the first time on Yestalk I'm sorry that I spoke, please don't shout at me I'm a delicate soul <img src=pix/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

What I was trying to say is that there are some pretty impressive ideas there and if they had made that their strategy from the start then it would have looked pretty good. We all bemoan the fact that sales are poor and now they are doing something radical about it - too late I'll grant you but the ideas outlined are excellent.

On the plus side they are maintaining their leadership in the technology arena. I also believe that there is an incredible number of ex-Yes fans out there who still don't even know that the band is still together. At every Fragile show I go to I can almost guarantee that someone will ask why it wasn't better publicised because they only just found out by chance. So I ask them, do you use the Internet?, do you read the music mags? do you read the music section of your local newspaper? No, is always the answer.

These people are very difficult to get to by conventional means so anything that puts Yes back under their noses without them having to make an effort is <b>good</b>. This is why the DVD-A thing sounds exciting. It fits the likely demographic and gets to some of these people. Yes can't afford what is genuinely needed, ie TV / radio advertising so anything like this has to help.

So, to wrap up, now I'm running out of steam. Yes, the overall management has been poor but I think that these new ideas, while poorly timed, are good innovations.

Simon.
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Postby Ed Schaum » Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:48 pm

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<b>fragilesi wrote:</b>

Whoa! For the first time on Yestalk I'm sorry that I spoke, please don't shout at me I'm a delicate soul <img src=pix/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

What I was trying to say is that there are some pretty impressive ideas there and if they had made that their strategy from the start then it would have looked pretty good.
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C'mon Simon, I'm pretty sure you have a thicker skin than that! :)

And in your second paragraph, you sum up my entire point in a few words.

And to everyone... as some have pointed out, this topic was not started to trash anybody, and I certainly didn't say anything bad about the music.

It's about the general lack of any solid marketing strategy. Why aren't there any radio station ads for the concert? What about newspaper ads. In years gone by, the NY Times ALWAYS had major ads announcing upcoming Yes shows.

If they wanted to release this album 6 months after the shows, there's nothing wrong with that. But to announce a pre-order, a sale date, and a special download, and then to have to keep changing it looks very unorganized.

Someone mentioned that many of us are always waiting for the next 70's epic. I don't think that's true either. The 2 keys albums were brilliant, the Ladder was pretty good, and the OYE comedy album...well, never mind that one :)

The whole point here is to try to HELP the band. I'm sure that every last one of us would be thrilled to hear Yes on the radio again, to have them being tracked in Billboard, to see and hear them on tv and radio, and maybe more than anything.....

to have other people say "Yes? Sure, I know who they are", instead of...pardon me :) YesWHO?

And I STILL want a YES bumper sticker <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Ed Schaum » Tue Sep 04, 2001 9:08 pm

Hi John, welcome aboard.

Glad you're enjoying this place so far, but you really can't compare this place to Yesworld. After all, they are the OFFICIAL site, and Glenn, Doug, Jeff, and Mike have very close contact with the band. They do a great job getting the news out to the fans, and their efforts are always appreciated.

My only complaint is that YES Magazine is no longer available. Actually, I do have another complaint...they used to sell a small amount of Yes merchandise, and that's gone too....although for the first time in a LONG time I got a postcard from them about some items that are currently available for sale.

Not sure what you mean about the ref to "legal" on Yesworld (I did see the new notice though), but it DOES sound like you have some additional info, especially in light of knowing what's up with Left Bank. Not sure if you're in a position to reveal anything, but there are certainly legions of fans RIGHT HERE who would be more than happy to help out in any way possible.

If we had some clear direction from management, we could organize calling campaigns to specific radio stations, etc. The power of an organized fan base is significant, and by definition, the people here are a very proactive group (or they wouldn't have joined and started posting).

The scariest thing you said is that Left Bank is looking for a "no additional cost" way to stay afloat. That strategy is ALWAYS doomed to failure. Exposure and commercial success cost money. Heavy advertising is the ONLY sure way to get the word out, there is just no substitute.
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Postby Yesmam » Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:17 pm

[quote]
<b>relayer4u wrote:</b>
Yesman, WAKE UP!
Relayer,,,,IM AWAKE<img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>,I am perfectly aware that it's all about $$$$$$$! One of the reasone I cancelled my subscription to Rolling Stone Magazine is because it's even become a money making machine. In all the years that I subscribed to that magazine I watched it slowly evolved from a mature magazine about music, politics and the environment to a corporate $$$$$ cache. Thats why we hardly ever see musicians of substance in the cover any more and that why we never hear musicians of substance on the radio any more. I have to wonder, maybe the band members of Yes arent willing to get involved in the money making market monster and hence the marketing they've had in the past.Pardon me if I don't have the quote thing down yet, I'll figure it out sooner or later.<img src=pix/icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby johnruuu » Tue Sep 04, 2001 11:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Ed Schaum wrote:</b>
Hi John, welcome aboard.

Glad you're enjoying this place so far, but you really can't compare this place to Yesworld. After all, they are the OFFICIAL site, and Glenn, Doug, Jeff, and Mike have very close contact with the band. They do a great job getting the news out to the fans, and their efforts are always appreciated.

My only complaint is that YES Magazine is no longer available. Actually, I do have another complaint...they used to sell a small amount of Yes merchandise, and that's gone too....although for the first time in a LONG time I got a postcard from them about some items that are currently available for sale.

Not sure what you mean about the ref to "legal" on Yesworld (I did see the new notice though), but it DOES sound like you have some additional info, especially in light of knowing what's up with Left Bank. Not sure if you're in a position to reveal anything, but there are certainly legions of fans RIGHT HERE who would be more than happy to help out in any way possible.

If we had some clear direction from management, we could organize calling campaigns to specific radio stations, etc. The power of an organized fan base is significant, and by definition, the people here are a very proactive group (or they wouldn't have joined and started posting).

The scariest thing you said is that Left Bank is looking for a "no additional cost" way to stay afloat. That strategy is ALWAYS doomed to failure. Exposure and commercial success cost money. Heavy advertising is the ONLY sure way to get the word out, there is just no substitute.


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Thanks for the welcome Ed.

I was hoping to spark a bit higher level dicussion on the marketing issues.

You obviously know the YESWORLD folks, because you sound a little defensive. I appreciate whatever effort YESWORLD puts forth too. My point on the web side perhaps should have been clearer. Lot's of people can build and maintain websites. Some are better than others, much better. If the only other distunguishing factor between all related websites after the most important one--that is quality/functionality--is "official information", than it too will be at risk of change. No matter how well the YESWORLD team knows the band or LBO, the fact is that the release of YES information (in almost every form) is reduced to only what is offerred/maintained on the YESWORLD site (a small and either cheap or no cost funnel). This truly represents the thinking, style and strategy of LBO. And, to put it bluntly, it represents serious problems for YES.

As far as YES Magazine, in my opinion, if it was sanctioned as an offical site, it's failure it also falls to the management company and then possibly with YESWORLD. There is already a YES magazine that exists for children unrelated to the music of YES.

It seems that you may have blown by much of the meaning of my post.
If you are saying that you and 'the organized fan base of YESTALK' would work voluntarily for the current management company, than you fall prey to exactly to one of the "no additional cost" strategies I referred to. That is a very gracious offer however.

Insofar as the new legal notice. No matter what you are told initially by your friends at YESWORLD, you will figure it out over time.

I need to be clear about any early conclusion that you might have drawn about LBO. My reference to "the no additional cost ways to stay afloat" are ONLY referring to activity with YES--not any other business they may be engaged in.

I would like to address a number of other related issues on this subject, but am out of time.

You will find that I have no interest in providing any assitance to the band's management/label company. I want them replaced as soon as possible.

John
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Postby fragilesi » Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Ed Schaum wrote:</b>

C'mon Simon, I'm pretty sure you have a thicker skin than that! :)

And in your second paragraph, you sum up my entire point in a few words.
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Ed, well I've crawled out of my hiding place now to once again brave the dangerous halls of Yestalk <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

I think that was my point though, mostly we were agreeing I just thought it was worth mentioning that some of the basic ideas were good even if the planning as you said was so goddamn awful!

Simon.
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Postby YesGrrl » Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:54 am

I'm not getting involved in this wrangle! :-)

However, just to clear up a few misconceptions and/or errors contained in recent posts:

1) Left Bank Organization owns Beyond Music, not the other way around.

2) The YesWorld website is not owned or maintained by Left Bank. The "Legal" disclaimer recently added to the website is a typical disclaimer used to protect a website's owner (mainly from copyright infringement); it has nothing to do with any mysterious backroom legal wrangling that anyone thinks may be going on inside Yes. Get a grip!

3) Jason Berliant works for Left Bank. Left Bank manages Yes. Ergo, Jason doesn't manage the band for himself, he manages it for his employer. Left Bank doesn't "own" Yes' contract; Yes signed a management agreement with Left Bank.

4) If you want to let Left Bank know how you feel, go to their website at www.lbo.com and click on "Contact Us" for contact info.
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Postby YesGrrl » Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:57 am

Oops! Sorry!

That link to Left Bank is lbank.com.

Mea culpa.
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Postby Ed1909 » Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:58 am

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Ed1909 wrote:</b>
Obviously if the release is Dec' in the US, over here will be similar
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From what I read at the bondagezou site the European release is still scheduled for September 10 on Eagle records.

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I can't see that happening. With so many millions online, tracks will be flying across the Atlantic at an alarming rate. Obviously the true fans would buy the CD in December anyway, but any half-decent band management would not let a three month discrepancy with US/Europe release dates happen because of this potential online piracy.
Of course, Eagle Records in Europe may well just go ahead anyway as it appears all the big marketing will be in the US; plus they're pissed off at being messed around maybe?
If Magnification does emerge on European shelves next week and the US December date is kept to, then that is clearly evidence of ineptitude from Left Bank, (unless there's something I've missed, and I'm sure I'll be put right if I have!)



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Postby Ed Schaum » Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>YesGrrl wrote:</b>
I'm not getting involved in this wrangle! :-)

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You just did <img src=pix/icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/silly.gif border=0 align=middle>

Actually, thanks for putting in that info, I think that will clear up some misconceptions!

So what do you think of this whole situation? (I know, you said you weren't getting involved, but I'll use any excuse to draw you into additional conversation here)
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Postby johnruuu » Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>YesGrrl wrote:</b>
I'm not getting involved in this wrangle! :-)

However, just to clear up a few misconceptions and/or errors contained in recent posts:

1) Left Bank Organization owns Beyond Music, not the other way around.

2) The YesWorld website is not owned or maintained by Left Bank. The "Legal" disclaimer recently added to the website is a typical disclaimer used to protect a website's owner (mainly from copyright infringement); it has nothing to do with any mysterious backroom legal wrangling that anyone thinks may be going on inside Yes. Get a grip!

3) Jason Berliant works for Left Bank. Left Bank manages Yes. Ergo, Jason doesn't manage the band for himself, he manages it for his employer. Left Bank doesn't "own" Yes' contract; Yes signed a management agreement with Left Bank.

4) If you want to let Left Bank know how you feel, go to their website at www.lbo.com and click on "Contact Us" for contact info.
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Well well, very touchy I see. LBO/Beyond Music either way, they are near the bottom of the barrel. Thats purely a formality and is now corrected-wow...

Get a grip yourself. If you read the crap they threw up on the YESWORLD site under the Legal section, one would swear that everyone and everything surrounding the band, including it's management company, is based upon volunteer services otherwise known as charity. That legal statement goes way beyond simple self protection rights.
And you made my point. When the managment firm changes, it is my opinion that the official site will change with it. Got a grip now?

Contract or agreement, it is legally binding either way--another play on words that makes no difference whatsoever.

Why would anyone want to bother with letting Left Bank know how they feel. That too is childish.

Glad to hear you spin..

Thanks.
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Postby Ed Schaum » Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>johnruuu wrote:</b>

You obviously know the YESWORLD folks, because you sound a little defensive.
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Yes on the defensive part, and No on whether or not I know them.

I probably shouldn't write this, but what the hell. I sort of chuckled when I read that because they've never done anything significant for me. They declined being part of the YesRing when I first started it, and again when I hit about 100 sites. I never approached them again about it after maybe 1998.

It would have given the ring significant credibility in the early days to be associated with the official site. I don't need it now, most yes sites already belong. In fact, we now have the honor of having the official Peter Banks site in the ring.

I wrote to them once saying that I put a lot of time and money into my yes related internet efforts (the yesring, the yesguitar site, and yestalk), and was there any possibility of getting better (paid, not free) seats for a one of the shows that I had LAST row for. They kinda blew me off on that request. I probably shouldn't have written in the first place, so I can't really blame them.

On the other hand, I did get some pretty good (paid) seats through one of their early ticket selling efforts several years ago.

I'm pretty sure that all of my sites are listed somewhere in their links section, at least they used to be :) And they always added my little advertisements to the newsletter when I used to send them in.

I made these sites for no other reason than enjoyment. But once they became successful, there's also a part of me that wouldn't mind some recognition. At one point I even thought about seeing if they'd want to integrate yestalk with their site, but I figured that would be the end of open discussion, we'd have to toe the line on what is acceptable.

About the defensive part, I would imagine that they could give me a hard time about certain things if they really wanted to, so I have no desire (and no reason) to say anything bad.

And as you can see from what I wrote, I don't know any of them, aside from a few emails back and forth a long time ago.

Also, if you check some of my posts from around the board, you can see that I sometimes say outrageous things about the band and some of the music, some deliberately provocative. For instance, to this day, I STILL say the OYE is a parody album, ala spinal tap. I'm sure you'd NEVER hear something like that from the official site :)

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I appreciate whatever effort YESWORLD puts forth too. My point on the web side perhaps should have been clearer. Lot's of people can build and maintain websites. Some are better than others, much better. If the only other distunguishing factor between all related websites after the most important one--that is quality/functionality--is "official information", than it too will be at risk of change. No matter how well the YESWORLD team knows the band or LBO, the fact is that the release of YES information (in almost every form) is reduced to only what is offerred/maintained on the YESWORLD site (a small and either cheap or no cost funnel). This truly represents the thinking, style and strategy of LBO. And, to put it bluntly, it represents serious problems for YES.
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The nature of any official site is going to be to put a spin on things, but the fact that Yes has been so net-friendly since the very beginning still means a lot to me. It's nice to be able to find out what's going on so easily, even though it's really "only what they want to tell us".

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
As far as YES Magazine, in my opinion, if it was sanctioned as an offical site, it's failure it also falls to the management company and then possibly with YESWORLD. There is already a YES magazine that exists for children unrelated to the music of YES.
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This was a SUPERIOR effort by the Gottlieb Bros. It was a small, 3 times a year 8 or 10 page glossy with lots of pics and current info. Many interviews with band members....long interviews, 5-10 pages sometimes. I think it took all their time though, and probably had limited circulation, so they were probably losing money. It lasted for a couple of years in the mid to late 90's, but it's gone now.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It seems that you may have blown by much of the meaning of my post.
If you are saying that you and 'the organized fan base of YESTALK' would work voluntarily for the current management company, than you fall prey to exactly to one of the "no additional cost" strategies I referred to. That is a very gracious offer however.
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I haven't missed what you're saying, the force behind the marketing has made a poor showing, that's what started this whole discussion. However, my desire to do anything possible for the further success of the BAND overshadows any thoughts of not helping management for free, even though this may not be the best long term strategy, as you have pointed out.

And did I say ORGANIZED. hahahahahahahahahaha...what was I thinking!<img src=pix/silly.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Insofar as the new legal notice. No matter what you are told initially by your friends at YESWORLD, you will figure it out over time.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. I didn't even know about it until it was brought up here. And you can be sure I've heard nothing from them.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I need to be clear about any early conclusion that you might have drawn about LBO. My reference to "the no additional cost ways to stay afloat" are ONLY referring to activity with YES--not any other business they may be engaged in.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I've drawn no conclusions about them. Well, maybe I have. They can't get airplay for their client, so they must not be a major. I don't have any idea who else they handle so I don't know if that holds true with other clients.

On the other hand, we're going to be looking for a record deal pretty soon, and I would imagine LB would be one of the org's approached. I probably blew any chance of that with this topic :(

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I would like to address a number of other related issues on this subject, but am out of time.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
If you're reading this, then you're back. Let's roll out more fodder for discussion.
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Postby johnruuu » Wed Sep 05, 2001 10:06 am

HOWDY THERE,

Ok, A slight change. It is LBO/Beyond.

You should get the grip. That disclaimer goes far beyond a simple, owner copyright protection. In fact it looks like perhaps to be an extrapolation of a Microsoft agreement--I will rule everyone and own everything, regardless. What a joke. It could be a copyright infringement onto itself. There may or not be, as you state, any "backroom wrangling going on inside YES." No one has implied that there is "wrangling" specific to the website or it's content. Funny how you tried to weave that in. When there is, I am certain that you will be the last to know. Just try to get a grip...

LBO has a number of managers, Jason happens to be one of them. Take a good look around and see what has been happening.

Whether an agreement or contract either way it's legally binding. All your doing is just tossing out another ball of fluff...

Who would be foolish/childish enough to contact LBO to gripe about their business shortcomings.

I am interested in the band, not in saving LBO.

Well, that just about wraps it up for now. Please do not waste any more of my time unless you have something to actually contribute to the thread.
<font color=green></font id=green>
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Postby theproffet » Wed Sep 05, 2001 10:31 am

Wow, Ed's back with a vengence . . .

I had no idea of your relationship with other, more "official" sites--I guess this rules out Mike Tiano as a judge for the lyrics contest . . .

My main complaint has always been that management isn't watching the fan sites. Sure, a poll now and again, but the management seems hardly aware of the younger fans, and the hardcore fan base. I've always wanted to see Yes from maybe the fourth row, but no ticket sales for fans, nothing special. But, as opposed to everyone else, I do blame the band . . .

"Out of all the rows, some really good music has emerged. I was going to say that Yes have not been well managed, but the problem is Yes is unmanageable . . . But the band goes off and does things and does things without prior thought, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't." --Rick Wakeman. Bruford feels much the same, and I do feel they have a very realistic and experienced view. Plus, Yes is a cult band; things work differntly. There's no way Magnification will chart any Billboard chart, and no reason why it should. Most people are stupid, and studid people don't buy good music.

LBO did put out the HOB show on PBS, and I did think that was a smart move. It made me buy the DVD, and really spread the music around, in a vast and intelligent forum.

Oh, nice to meet you Johnruuu . . . please post at one of our less devisive topics . . . <img src=pix/icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Postby jackalz » Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:11 am

Well, I don't feel a need to blame. Life is too precious. I'm sure that LBO/whatever would love to make all the right decisions, and make Yes successful. At the same time they have to protect themselves and their families livlihood. I don't feel Yes are being abused, but it's really up to Yes to protect themselves.

I don't feel any big name corporations are the way Yes wants to go, and I really doubt Yes is the way big corps want to go. So, unless they get the big name corp, they just aren't going to get that level clout. Their only hope is to hang in there and hopefully get some serendipity of business chance. There's a lot of momentum going against them, and really it's amazing that they have stayed afloat. I've got to show some signs of appreciated loyalties, since by coincidence that is the quote at the top of this page.

It's all good.
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Postby Ed Schaum » Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>johnruuu wrote:</b>
HOWDY THERE,

Ok, A slight change. It is LBO/Beyond.

You should get the grip. That disclaimer goes far beyond a simple, owner copyright protection. In fact it looks like perhaps to be an extrapolation of a Microsoft agreement--I will rule everyone and own everything, regardless. What a joke. It could be a copyright infringement onto itself. There may or not be, as you state, any "backroom wrangling going on inside YES." No one has implied that there is "wrangling" specific to the website or it's content. Funny how you tried to weave that in. When there is, I am certain that you will be the last to know. Just try to get a grip...

LBO has a number of managers, Jason happens to be one of them. Take a good look around and see what has been happening.

Whether an agreement or contract either way it's legally binding. All your doing is just tossing out another ball of fluff...

Who would be foolish/childish enough to contact LBO to gripe about their business shortcomings.

I am interested in the band, not in saving LBO.

Well, that just about wraps it up for now. Please do not waste any more of my time unless you have something to actually contribute to the thread.
<font color=green></font id=green>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

How about mellowing out just a bit. Please don't try to decide whether someone else is "contributing to the thread".

It's starting to sound like you're on a mission, and I don't really have a zealot forum. But if you want to hang out with some yesfriends, and maybe let us know how you feel about these issues in that sort of atmosphere, I think we'd all enjoy it.
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Postby johnruuu » Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:09 pm

I do apologize for the "thread contribution" statement made earlier and the fact that I think that I may have posted replies more than once. I am still new to using the system and did not get a confirmation to some of the replies.

I will retreat on the subject for now and consider a different topic.

JR
"The Power of Positive Thinking"
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Postby johnruuu » Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:07 pm

To Mr. Proffet:

Please consider cleaning out my extraneous posts that I had accidentally added to the thread. A couple are not edited and are certainly redundant.

BTW, great picture...

Thanks
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Postby Ed Schaum » Thu Sep 06, 2001 12:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>johnruuu wrote:</b>
To Mr. Proffet:

Please consider cleaning out my extraneous posts that I had accidentally added to the thread. A couple are not edited and are certainly redundant.

BTW, great picture...

Thanks
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Ok, this is taken care of. I got rid of the recent duplicate posts.
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Postby poodeeo » Thu Sep 06, 2001 1:19 am

IMO, what's all the fuss? Is this so important? Just another Yes album. I think if I choose to worry about something, it might be a loved one.

we have heaven
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Postby qman » Thu Sep 06, 2001 1:58 am

<font color=red><font size=3>My my what an interesting read all this is. We certainly do expect a lot from YES simply because they have raised the bar musically. I try not to dwell on the lack of merchandise it just pisses me off but I would love a YES bumper or back window sticker for my car! Not to mention a few hats and cool shirts.

The new CD Magnification: I was not Pro Orchestra from the start of all the Magnification talk and so I always had my doubts as to how good it would be. Has anyone said out loud that maybe they are delaying the CD release until the tour is over because it sucks? The reviews I've read of the tour have been mixed at best. Provided my plane lands on time I'll see and hear for myself what's going on this Friday and Saturday in NYC. Ed, hopefully we can meet at the Jones Beach show. Are you going Sat also?

I believe the Ladder was an exceptional YES release and we seem to underestimate the negative impact Billy and Igor departing would have on the band.

Prediction: <img src=pix/icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle> Some savvy promoters are going to realize the mega bucks potential of YES. This will result in a Pink Floyd "The WALL" type CD release and tour that will put YES on everyone's map once and for all. I know this sounds crazy, but actually when you think about it why is Pink Floyd still revered by the masses today and not YES. Simply put "MARKETING". Once the right marketing team is in place anything is possible. Madison avenue could have us eating dog if they wanted to. Remember when people simply quit smoking by no longer buying cigarettes, now Madison avenue has convinced the masses that you need a "patch" and or "gum" and they created a bullshit billion dollar industry! Marketing will find YES as surly as a roach finds a restaurant and then all hell will break loose. </font id=red></font id=size3><img src=pix/icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby Lotus » Thu Sep 06, 2001 2:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>qman wrote:</b>
Has anyone said out loud that maybe they are delaying the CD release until the tour is over because it sucks? The reviews I've read of the tour have been mixed at best.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Well,I don't know,but here's my final theory on the matter:LBO was counting on the tour for a lot of free publicity.As you point out,it didn't work,and barely a peep from the national media...so these guys were left holding the hot potato of an album release with absolutely no hype around it.They then backpedeled and changed their strategy.Regardless,at this stage,the cd's gonna do much better with the new promotion than it would've without,so IMO it can only help the band.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Prediction: Some savvy promoters are going to realize the mega bucks potential of YES...Marketing will find YES as surly as a roach finds a restaurant and then all hell will break loose.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hah-I agree,It Can Happen.

<hr>No matter where you go,there you are
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Postby YesGrrl » Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:04 am

Ok, let me first catch my breath from laughing so hard -- I had no idea that my post would ruffle so many tail feathers!

I wasn't defending Left Bank, YesWorld or anyone else. My intention was to merely correct some erroneous information that had been posted in this thread. I'm a lawyer -- just the facts, ma'am.

Johnruuu, I think you misconstrued my post. (In fact, I think you've misconstrued a number of posts on this board. Are you always so defensive?)

YesWorld is owned and maintained by a fan. It's not going anywhere if Yes' management should change. What does one have to do with the other? Nothing. And you know what -- why should anyone care? We shouldn't. It's a free country!

Ed, I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get cooperation from YesWorld. I think it's a shame...you run a great board, and it's obvious that you and the people who frequent the place really care about the band.

BTW, my information about the "Legal" disclaimer on the YesWorld website is legitimate; I'm an tech lawyer, so I was just sharing some of my expertise. (One of Johnruuu's earlier posts contained some thinly-veiled references to this Legal disclaimer having something to do with some sort of mysterious doings, and -- I will admit -- I wanted to poke a pin in that particular balloon. If I offended, my apologies.)

I merely gave contact info for Left Bank so that -- should anyone so desire -- they could share their feelings with the management company. I'm not urging anyone to do so, but several posts in this thread led me to believe that some of the fans would like a more direct outlet for sharing their feelings. If someone thinks their input is important, they should have the right and the means to make themselves heard.

Wow! I haven't met people this passionate in YEARS! Thanks for taking my post so seriously but -- really -- aren't we all here to enjoy ourselves, not to personally attack each other? Johnruuu -- to you especially -- as I said before, get a grip! Not you, nor I, nor anyone else on this message board, are the band's management company, marketing rep, record company, booking agent or anything else. We're just fans. Let's keep that in perspective.

Thanks again, all, for a most enjoyable read!
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Postby N2yes » Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:29 am

<font color=red>You know what? More than anything, I watched in dismay as this thread was suddenly and rather inexplicably turned into a gladiator's arena of the pseudo-omniscient. Ed simply started a thread concerning what appears to be but one more blundering misstep in the long and abysmal record on behalf of YES and their marketeers ( Are there 3 of them? Touche! ). The next thing you know, counsel is "sharing" its expertise and Ed is being berated by "Zeus" who apparently descended from his lofty perch atop Mt. Olympus just long enough to enlighten us all! Talk about your being surrounded!!

I don't care to have the last word, it's not my style but in retrospect, certain parts of this thread seemed to have temporarily snuck under the circus tent! Arrogance unrestrained!!!

I am very glad that everyone came to their senses as the whole affair was so unnecessary. Oh well, signing out!</font id=red><img src=pix/icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day
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Postby Ed Schaum » Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>N2yes wrote:</b>
[red]You know what? More than anything, I watched in dismay as this thread was suddenly and rather inexplicably turned into a gladiator's arena of the pseudo-omniscient.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

This just points out what a great band Yes is!

I'm sure there aren't many intense debates about every aspect of the music of <i>insert boy band of the week here</i>

If we all didn't care about the music so much, then the conversations would be much more boring. Unfortunately, intense debate sometimes gets...intense.

As far as the other item, it ended quite graciously, so maybe something good will come of it.

And what's a circus without a sideshow, anyway? <img src=pix/icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby johnruuu » Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:56 am

For the Love of YES...
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Postby johnruuu » Thu Sep 06, 2001 9:04 am

My understanding is that the tour (in NA then Europe and then NA again) was to create enough revenue and profit to go forward with that "Blockbuster" you are referring to. They may or may not reach the revenue and profitablility necessary to fund it throroughly. Those were LBO's choices.

I just do not think that LBO is the firm to attempt the "block buster" with.

BUST...

Peace.
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Postby Lotus » Thu Sep 06, 2001 10:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>N2yes wrote:</b>
More than anything, I watched in dismay as this thread was suddenly and rather inexplicably turned into a gladiator's arena of the pseudo-omniscient.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

N2yes,as I'm not sure who you're refering to,I'd just like to say that I'm very sorry if I came off that way,my intentions via some unbridaled speculation were to put a positive spin on this issue,which I'm personally not passionate about but seems to bum some folks out.I pulled my theories out of my butt and freely admit I've no "expertise" from which to draw other than close observance of managers.So if I sounded arrogant or like an attempted know-it-all I apologize,I know nothing,I was actually trying to rationalize a way in which the delay a)made sense and b)ended up being good for the band.

The thing about a slick LA publicist was serious...but I've nothing against them,they can do wonders for a performer's career.

Yesgurrl-many thanks for the info,that's the second thread(to my knowlege)where you've swooped in with some nuts-and-bolts information in answer to wild speculation.I don't know if it's been said yet but welcome.

PS:My apologies also on calling "Jason" Berliant "Jordan"...I was just quoting the other site.

<hr>No matter where you go,there you are
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Postby N2yes » Thu Sep 06, 2001 11:04 am

<font color=red>My most excellent friend Lotus, no one who frequents this forum acted in an outlandish manner IMHO. You have nothing to apologize for!!

The ordeal has ended and apparently, it's been thrown on the ground where the rain will settle it.

Load-us, you are alright, no matter what jackalz says about you!</font id=red> <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day
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