What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?



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What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:03 pm

Without wishing to revisit the issues surfaced in a similarly names thread (...) it does seem to me this is something we need to be clear about.. A lot of the posters here also visit & contribute to Yesfans, which does seem the more active forum.

But yet here we are.. so it seems to me we ought to think about 'what's the difference' in a positive way, & develop a USP, a purpose, a reason for being for Yestalk that sets it apart from Yesfans & gives people a reason to come visit.

is it about the kind of people we are (it cant be if we visit both) or the things we discuss & the WAY we discuss them?

All shades of opinion welcome!

Marc

[} :) ]
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Billy Sherwood HQ » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:03 pm

the greenman wrote:Without wishing to revisit the issues surfaced in a similarly names thread (...) it does seem to me this is something we need to be clear about.. A lot of the posters here also visit & contribute to Yesfans, which does seem the more active forum.

But yet here we are.. so it seems to me we ought to think about 'what's the difference' in a positive way, & develop a USP, a purpose, a reason for being for Yestalk that sets it apart from Yesfans & gives people a reason to come visit.

is it about the kind of people we are (it cant be if we visit both) or the things we discuss & the WAY we discuss them?

All shades of opinion welcome!

Marc

[} :) ]


Well said Marc... On that note

Hello Friends !!

Just wanted to wish all of you a happy healthy and musicaly wonderful new year... 2009 WOW !!

May it be filled with peace and love for us all !!
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm

Hey Billy, Happy New Year to you - a big one for you I think, what with the USA Prog Music CD of the Year in 2008 and the Circa release imminent..

So what are YOUR views? How do we make this place 'distinct' from Yesfans & give people a reason to visit? Often.

Marc
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Billy Sherwood HQ » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:01 pm

the greenman wrote:Hey Billy, Happy New Year to you - a big one for you I think, what with the USA Prog Music CD of the Year in 2008 and the Circa release imminent..

So what are YOUR views? How do we make this place 'distinct' from Yesfans & give people a reason to visit? Often.

Marc


Winning best prog record of the year at www.usaprogmusic.com was an honor indeed. Thanks for the good vibes, 2008 was a good year.

I don't know about distinctions from yesfans, I like both places and vist them both too.
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Roan's Lady » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:19 pm

the greenman wrote:Without wishing to revisit the issues surfaced in a similarly names thread (...) it does seem to me this is something we need to be clear about.. A lot of the posters here also visit & contribute to Yesfans, which does seem the more active forum.

But yet here we are.. so it seems to me we ought to think about 'what's the difference' in a positive way, & develop a USP, a purpose, a reason for being for Yestalk that sets it apart from Yesfans & gives people a reason to come visit.

is it about the kind of people we are (it cant be if we visit both) or the things we discuss & the WAY we discuss them?

All shades of opinion welcome!

Marc

[} :) ]


Yesfans has an essential advantage over Yestalk in the following ways:

1. It's the "go-to" sort of "official" Yes fan site, bestowed upon it by a link from Yesworld. At least one member and one ex-member of Yes have also posted there (and several likely read it), which, in the eyes of many, gives the site clout and makes it more interesting.

2. Yesfans has some established groups/cliques, who have gotten together a number of times over the years under the banner of "Yesfans gatherings". Whether these sorts of things are your cuppa tea or not, they do help to give solidarity and identity to the site itself.

3. Since the membership is large, it feeds on itself; lots of new postings daily by mods and members alike.

4. The mod style is generally rather loose and hands-off, which sometimes has its disadvantages when the occasional heated exchange occurs, but the lack of heavy-handedness encourages open discussion on a variety of topics, from the ridiculous to the sublime. :)


Here at Yestalk, some things (particularly any "official" status) can't be altered. What can be altered (and I think is quite important, and lacking here) is that the mods and admin get in here much more regularly and start and/or add to discussions. A site I know of, just a discussion site, not only about music, was begun by a person who starts and gets involved in discussions on a variety of topics at a rather intense rate - as a result, people jump in quickly and likely know that something new will be onsite several times daily. If you want to draw people here, there has to be talk about things that will get people involved enough to want to come back - and often. I think the key is consistent involvement by the mods. Otherwise, people will figure that if the folks running things aren't so interested in the site they run, what's the draw for anyone else?

Yestalk has a lot of potential and I really do hope that 2009 sees it flourish. :)
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby tribute1969 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:28 am

I just think the Yestalkers are better looking....
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Roan's Lady » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:40 am

tribute1969 wrote:I just think the Yestalkers are better looking....


Not all of them are. :p




A little wise-assness wouldn't hurt this place, either. A little going-against-the-grain, and a little ruffling of feathers to inspire conversation. Peacocks and beans are dull after the fifty-sixth mention of them, and so are lava lamps. Bring it on. :D
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:54 am

But dont you get all that on Yesfans? & given that Yesfans has a bigger & more active member base I really think this place has to offer something quite different or it will wither & die..

I've noticed that sometimes a whole day goes by before any response gets posted here. It also seems a bit slow to load, which I guess is a server thing?

over 'there', there's more activity, more people sitting watching, waiting to reply...& the whole site is faster..

It feels like an active community, where as this feels like a big dusty house, where you can wander the corridors for hours without bumping into anyone.. Kind of spooky!

So, what I'm suggesting, people, is that find that 'reason for being' - otherwise this place will just wither & die..

& we dont want that? Do we?!!!! :eek:

Marc
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby happytheman » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:14 pm

the greenman wrote:But dont you get all that on Yesfans? & given that Yesfans has a bigger & more active member base I really think this place has to offer something quite different or it will wither & die..

I've noticed that sometimes a whole day goes by before any response gets posted here. It also seems a bit slow to load, which I guess is a server thing?

over 'there', there's more activity, more people sitting watching, waiting to reply...& the whole site is faster..

It feels like an active community, where as this feels like a big dusty house, where you can wander the corridors for hours without bumping into anyone.. Kind of spooky!

So, what I'm suggesting, people, is that find that 'reason for being' - otherwise this place will just wither & die..

& we dont want that? Do we?!!!! :eek:

Marc


Don't take this wrong...please. But let's get real, most people including myself have a life. I personally don't have time to "sit around" and jump in on discussions every hour etc. My routine since I found this site is pretty predictable. I get up (depending on the season) around 5am. I "drop by" Yestalk and few other sites. Then I shower and get ready for work. In the summer months I'm out of the house before the sun gets up in order to get to the job site just as the sun is coming up. Winter months I'm on the snow or at the ski shop by 8 am. All that means is that I can sleep an extra hour. And I'm not going to spend that extra hour sitting in front of the computer waiting on baited breath for a "response" to my latest post. Today just happens to be Sunday so I've got a "bit" more flexibility in that I don't go leave the house for church till 9.30, then the rest of my day is spent with my wife.
I liken these sites to my version of "Cheers". Granted I generally visit "Cheers" early in the morning vs. "Happy Hour" like most normal human beings, but nevertheless, it's a nice way to spend a few minutes each morning "checking" in with friends, throwing out a few ideas and perhaps having something to "mull" over during the daylight hours. I've only tried one time to get involved with the "Chat" feature here and for what ever the reason couldn't figure out how to "enter the room" so while I think that would have been a fun experience (I've read some wild stories here regarding chat sessions!) I've never been able to talk "real time" with anyone here.
Again as I stated earlier in this post, don't take this wrong but........if folks over at YesFans have so much time on their hands.....they either have figured out something that I haven't yet been able to figure out i.e. how to make $'s without leaving your home! or well let's just leave it that they have more time on their hands than I do.
Regarding Roan's response, there could be something to it, but I'll use my example for the Mods, we are all very busy providing for our families, this is a "sideline gig". No one that I'm aware of is doing any posting or overseeing forums in exchange for "$'s". This is simply a hobby.
And it's been discussed on multiple occasions, people come people go, some stay others simply visit. I'm happy when I see an "old" familiar face (or in this case name) pop up in a post. Here's to having more "familiar names" pop up during the '09 year!
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby tribute1969 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:43 pm

Speak for yourself.... :D

Some say the Sun and Moon are dull and predictable too...

For arguments sake :rolleyes:

Still just like the colors around here....

Hey, let's go pick on Billy Sherwood some more! :eek:


Roan's Lady wrote:Not all of them are. :p




A little wise-assness wouldn't hurt this place, either. A little going-against-the-grain, and a little ruffling of feathers to inspire conversation. Peacocks and beans are dull after the fifty-sixth mention of them, and so are lava lamps. Bring it on. :D
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:09 pm

I agree with you, Happy... in fact, that's the point - we're all busy people with lives outside the webworld; & with only a limited amount of time to spend on Forums etc.

So if one site looks much like another (I dont mean in design, more content) & one is more active than another, people arent going to spend time in the less attractive less active place, which is perhaps why more people visit Yesfans?

I wasnt implying that people hang around all day waiting to respond, it's just more likely there'll be other users online there than here.. so if you're looking for instant response or looking to see what people have to say on breaking issues then that's more the place to go... People drop in when they have a few moments to spare..

So that's what I mean about trying to define more the difference between the two sites..

There are others here who visit both - I'm interested if they have a view on why/when they go to one rather than the other?
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Roan's Lady » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:06 pm

tribute1969 wrote:Speak for yourself.... :D




Well, I'm not speaking for anyone else - at least as far as I can tell. ;)
Should anyone have the forthrightness to agree with me (and publicly) remains to be seen.


the greenman wrote:I agree with you, Happy... in fact, that's the point - we're all busy people with lives outside the webworld; & with only a limited amount of time to spend on Forums etc.

So if one site looks much like another (I dont mean in design, more content) & one is more active than another, people arent going to spend time in the less attractive less active place, which is perhaps why more people visit Yesfans?

I wasnt implying that people hang around all day waiting to respond, it's just more likely there'll be other users online there than here.. so if you're looking for instant response or looking to see what people have to say on breaking issues then that's more the place to go... People drop in when they have a few moments to spare..

So that's what I mean about trying to define more the difference between the two sites..

There are others here who visit both - I'm interested if they have a view on why/when they go to one rather than the other?


I like Yesfans 'cos I like the fact that there are so many different voices there. There are a few people who I've become rather close to (as much as is possible for me to do so online) - and it's still fun and interesting to converse with those I'm not quite as close to, but with whom I share similar tastes, outlooks, ideas. Here there are definitely folks I've got plenty in common with, but gosh, you guys rarely post, so talkin' to you isn't so easy. The fact that Yesfans is so heavily trafficked means that it's quite likely that people will respond to my posts relatively quickly - which is preferable to waiting for hours (or days) - so Marc, that "instant response" you speak of is a definite draw for me. (By the way, I'm happy to see you so involved here since joining not so long ago. :) )

I think if we want a thriving Yestalk, we have to simply make our voices heard more often - including those of members who come around but rarely post - let's hear from you! :)
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:03 pm

I think I used to come in here 'back in the day', but with Yes being on hiatus for such a long time there wasnt that much to say! (& no lets not get drawn into the 'but this still isnt YES debate here - that's for another place, if you want)

you just have to look at the number of people on line @ anyone time, or over a day & this site is way less active than YF & I just wondered if we shouldnt try to position it as for a different kind of Yes fan, & for a different kind of debate?

just my idea - happy to discuss it!

& I'm coming from the place that says people DONT have infinite time to contribute to both sites - but noting that some of the mods on here are also involved in YF so I was curious as to what they felt..

It's just the marketing man in me coming out, I guess! I dont have any great ideas about 'what' or 'how'!
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby yesireebob » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:07 am

Roan's Lady wrote:A little wise-assness wouldn't hurt this place, either. A little going-against-the-grain, and a little ruffling of feathers to inspire conversation. Peacocks and beans are dull after the fifty-sixth mention of them, and so are lava lamps. Bring it on. :D


Nothing wrong with ruffling feathers, unless it results in hurling invectives and ugly free-for-alls. We have had way too much of that in the last month or two. That's about as inspired as Jerry Springer or whoever does those kind of talk shows these days. Given the overblown reactions of late, I suspect people may be a little leary of weighing in and and being met with hostility.

Also, Happytheman makes a good point about time. We are barely out of the holidays, and people do have lives beyond cyberspace. It's all I can do to check in daily and post a quick comment or start a new thread here and there.

I can publicly state that there's nothing wrong with peacocks or lava lamps. At least SOMEONE is sharing their personal idiosyncrasies. We could certainly stand to expand our repertoire, but that is a function of more people dropping in and staying awhile. It's a new year, hopefully we will see the return of some long-missing members and gain some new ones.

Greenman, welcome, and Amy wecome back. You both raise some great points and this is discussion we certainly need to have. But how about posting in some other existing threads or starting some new ones if the existing ones don't interest you? Like any other relationship, sometimes you need to just HAVE the relationship -- peacocks, lava lamps, and all -- instead of talking about it all the time.

I wish everyone would commit to starting one new thread a week, or a month, whatever time allows. No matter how inane, you never know where things will lead ...

So, by all means, bring it on!
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:34 pm

I'm not really sure the Holidays argument holds up... Yesfans appears to have been fairly busy (from what I can tell) & you might argue that people have MORE time to go online @ home & chat over the holiday period.

The interesting thing is that they're choosing to go there, not here...

Except a few of us brave souls!

Perhaps we should venture over their & invite them in, but we have to have a reason! A tasty treat to entice them...

Would Billy & the legend TK & Jimmy and maybe Jay too, be kind enough to commit to an exclusive 'online chat' in here to help promote the new Circa offering?

Or have we managed to upset Billy to much for that?! :o
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby yesireebob » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:35 pm

Look, this in NOT Yesfans and I don't think the goal is to become Yesfans.2. We don't need to be treated like some poor family relation. We need more of what we already have. We used to have a very lively chat and it would be nice to resuscitate that. Again, I think it would be nice if people would just respond to existing threads, start new ones and invest in the place in a member instead of just theorizing about what's wrong with it.
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby tribute1969 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:14 pm

These sites and threads are alot like the movie
"Groundhog Day"....
Everyday is the same with a slight twist....
Some twists are bigger than others but the base elements stay the same..

I enjoy the running gags of how the beans turned out, where the peacocks are flying or what bizarre, random item falls in my world to add to my collection in the LLL...

Since we are all in this together with the core of all being YES and Prog Music fans bonded together as some sort of an extended, cyber family it's ok
that some folks want diversity and deep thinking everytime out and some of us like subtle, comedic varations on the same theme...

Like happytheman said.......this can be your "Cheers" or this can be your "Think Tank".....

Think I'll go listen to some "Spinal Tap" followed by some "King Crimson"...
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:26 pm

yesireebob wrote:Look, this in NOT Yesfans and I don't think the goal is to become Yesfans.2. We don't need to be treated like some poor family relation. We need more of what we already have. We used to have a very lively chat and it would be nice to resuscitate that. Again, I think it would be nice if people would just respond to existing threads, start new ones and invest in the place in a member instead of just theorizing about what's wrong with it.


that's my very point - I think! This isnt Yesfans 2, & it shouldnt be. what it needs to be is something distinct.

& I'm just trying to tease that out with you guys, by way of a dialogue, whilst also posting to other threads & starting a few off to get the ball rolling.

what the world doesnt need - I think - is two parallel discussion groups visited largely by the same people.

what I'm saying is - how can we make this place BETTER & more interesting than Yesfans! A more compelling place to come for 'serious' (& some not so serious!) debate.

Marc
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Billy Sherwood HQ » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:43 pm

the greenman wrote:I'm not really sure the Holidays argument holds up... Yesfans appears to have been fairly busy (from what I can tell) & you might argue that people have MORE time to go online @ home & chat over the holiday period.

The interesting thing is that they're choosing to go there, not here...

Except a few of us brave souls!

Perhaps we should venture over their & invite them in, but we have to have a reason! A tasty treat to entice them...

Would Billy & the legend TK & Jimmy and maybe Jay too, be kind enough to commit to an exclusive 'online chat' in here to help promote the new Circa offering?

Or have we managed to upset Billy to much for that?! :o


I'm really the only internet junkie in CIRCA: so i doubt i can get the guys to commit to anything chat wise... I am always stopping into chats here there and everywhere Progears, Yesfans and now the new circa: forum which has a built in chat on the side as you visit. I've looked for chatters in here but when ever I have jumped in it's been empty. If that changes I'm in when I can do so.

Never worry about upsetting me, I deal with things in a very real manner, that way there is no offense able to "stick". I have a thick skin for the pea shoooters anyways... Actually it's a kevlar jump suit.
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Roan's Lady » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:49 pm

yesireebob wrote:Nothing wrong with ruffling feathers, unless it results in hurling invectives and ugly free-for-alls. We have had way too much of that in the last month or two. That's about as inspired as Jerry Springer or whoever does those kind of talk shows these days. Given the overblown reactions of late, I suspect people may be a little leary of weighing in and and being met with hostility.


No, not hostility; a little lively debate without that can be a good thing - while always keeping in mind that it has to be a bit more "considered" when doing it on the internet, establishing that fine balance between being a bit easier on someone you don't really know, and also not taking things too, too seriously or too, too to heart all the time...




yesireebob wrote:I wish everyone would commit to starting one new thread a week, or a month, whatever time allows. No matter how inane, you never know where things will lead ...


I like that idea. :)
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby N2yes » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:05 am

I don't care for YF...never have. Not all, but many conversations seem a bit too teeny-bop for me. This site seems to have been abandoned primarily due to the bickering that was going on for a while back. Many a mod was sickened by it and regrettably, there ended up being only one way to deal with it. It's thankfully over and I do think things will pick back up again, the sooner the better. This site was hopping with intelligent debate for many a year, but insults and defamatory comments were few, if any. That changed, but necessary changes have taken place and I don't think that will be the case again. It will be a slow return, but this site will not wither.
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby tardistraveler » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:49 pm

Some good comments here.

I think of late, the intermittent slowness that the site seems to have has been the largest problem we face here. I've taken to opening Yestalk in a different browser window, so I can do other things while I wait on a thread to open, or something to post. Most people aren't going to take the time to do that - if things are slow, they're going to move along to something else.

And something to consider - as a site grows, the response time problems become more acute. Yesfans kept crashing due to increased activity, and finally had to opt for a dedicated server for the site, at a cost of $250/month. Having a lot of activity can be costly.

I really think if the site speed problems could be resolved with some consistency, then we could put some of these other suggestions in place, and get back to the level of activity we once had here, with an active chat room as well.
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby yesireebob » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:42 am

Yes, chat! We used to have so much fun with that. Whatever happened to the prof, Yesmam, Yeskat, and all the Yes goddesses that once reigned supreme? Also, whatever happened to perpetualchanger, Michelle, Astral Traveler, Guildigger, Haze, Yesquire? Many former yestalkers seem to have vanished into thin air.
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby guilddigger » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:31 am

Oh, somebody misses me? ;)
Rest assure, I am still around but my schedule is too limited to actually participate in conversations.
But I am alive and kicking!
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby yesireebob » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:46 pm

Great to hear from you, guildigger! Glad to know you are still around even if it's only in lurk mode. We all go through our lurk phases when life interferes with cyber-socializing. Hope to see more of you one day!
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby tardistraveler » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:24 pm

yesireebob wrote:Yes, chat! We used to have so much fun with that. Whatever happened to the prof, Yesmam, Yeskat, and all the Yes goddesses that once reigned supreme? Also, whatever happened to perpetualchanger, Michelle, Astral Traveler, Guildigger, Haze, Yesquire? Many former yestalkers seem to have vanished into thin air.



Yeah - we used to have quite a crew who would visit chat, and that was one of the real draws here, IMO. Yestalk chat was the BEST!!!

Guilddigger - good to see you here! We used to chat in the room, as I recall - you were usually one of the early ones there.

What about Doogee? He used to come to chat too.

And yeah, I miss Proff - anyone hear from him lately? And Gatesofdeliriumcrasher - where's he gotten to?
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Roan's Lady » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:46 pm

guilddigger wrote:Oh, somebody misses me? ;)
Rest assure, I am still around but my schedule is too limited to actually participate in conversations.
But I am alive and kicking!


Jeepers. I missed you. I was just too bashful to say so. :o ;)

Glad you're alive, kicking, and decided to check in here, Tom!
hope's as high as the sun today...
~moon safari
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby tribute1969 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:42 am

I think we should try and set a couple of times for a chat roundup..
Say set a Sat or Sun AM time and another Fri or Sat evening time for everyone that can to sign on and banter like it's 1999 or 96 or 69...
Bring Your Own Thong..


yesireebob wrote:Yes, chat! We used to have so much fun with that. Whatever happened to the prof, Yesmam, Yeskat, and all the Yes goddesses that once reigned supreme? Also, whatever happened to perpetualchanger, Michelle, Astral Traveler, Guildigger, Haze, Yesquire? Many former yestalkers seem to have vanished into thin air.
WAR IS OVER! IF YOU WANT IT!
John and Yoko Ono Lennon-1969
WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT SPIRIT HERE SINCE 1969...
Hotel California
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby the greenman » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:30 pm

I think the server issue is one we may have to face...

Go into any Forum - like this or YF - and people expect **instant** response not to have to hang about waiting.. People dont, in general, have the patience we clearly do!

YF is to the nth degree faster & more instant than here..

Maybe there's some housekeeping that can be done to archive old threads, which arent live anymore which might speed response?

I'm not a techie, but I do a lot of work with websites so I know a little (only a little!) of what I speak

anyone got any suggestions as to what could be done to speed things up?

M
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Re: What's Yestalk got that Yesfans doesnt have?

Postby Chris2210 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:15 pm

We had the same problem a couple of months ago and Ed (the site's owner) was able to sort something out to speed things up. It seems currently we're back to square one - or possibly even a little worse - it seems painfully slow at present.

If you're listening N2, you need to have another word in the great man's shell-like - it really is woefully bad at present. Frustrating for the regulars and probably prohibitive for any potential new member.
I used to be agnostic. These days I'm not so sure.
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