Jon and Rick Disappointed



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Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby coalescestudionyc » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:14 pm

I read this on Henry's site (an excellent resource, for those who aren't familiar with it):

Longer term plans
The current line-up are touring through to the end of 2009. They then have plans to record a studio album at the beginning of 2010 (as described below), followed by more touring. Some reports had Anderson (and maybe R. Wakeman) returning to the band at some point in 2010, but the latest reports suggest this will not happen.

A 1 Sep 2009 report by a fan has White, on being asked whether Anderson and R. Wakeman will return to the band, replying, "Yeah, sometime next year." In a US radio appearance later that month, White reportedly also hinted at Anderson's return. However, the current weight of evidence suggests otherwise. One well-placed rumour has that the line-up with Anderson/R. Wakeman are not talking about touring in 2010, while both Anderson and R. Wakeman have been critical of Yes lately. In the RWCC Summer Newsletter 2009 (out Sep), Wakeman said:

I have been getting more than a few people asking me what "we" are going to be performing at the YES concerts in the UK in November and am getting some startled responses when I tell them that neither Jon nor myself are anything to do with the current tour and that we are both very unhappy that they are advertising the tour as YES and not even having the courtesy or guts to list the line-up, which is nothing short of deception.

A 6 Oct news report from Classic Rock quotes Anderson:
Jon Anderson [...] insists that despite recent health problems he was fit and able to rejoin the band for their current tour – but they’d made other plans.

“The band recruited a guy from a Canadian Yes tribute band [...] I felt they could have waited until I’d recovered [...]

“I’d actually been ill for about five years and it got to the point where I couldn’t continue. I had to take a complete break – and ended up having six operations.

“I said to them I was available, but they said they were contracted to Benoit. It’s a complicated situation.

“I think it’s inappropriate and not respectful to the fans. People have bought tickets thinking I’m performing on the tour.

“I would like everybody to know that, as much as I wish the band well, they should not tour as Yes. The fans should be advised that I’m not part of the tour.”
(In fact, much of the promotion for the tour is clear about the line-up, although there are some adverts that do not mention the current band membership.)

Meanwhile, Squire and Howe have been talking about continuing with the current line-up. In a 20 Sep interview on BBC Radio 2's Johnnie Walker's Sounds of the 70s, Squire says he was at Howe's home a few days before discussing recording a new album in 2010 with David and O. Wakeman. Asked about Anderson's absense, Squire said:

For a period of time it's been difficult for Jon to... commit to doing... y'know, a large-scale tour like one has to when one takes a whole crew and the entourage on the road. It's got to be for a period of time. And his health has been a little bit fragile. Although I hear he's much more recovered than he has been. But, er, during the course of that uncertainty, we hired in Benoît to do that job and that's going extremely well.

In an early Oct UK radio interview, Squire reportedly did not rule out working with Anderson and R. Wakeman at some point in the future, but said "not for now".

http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wnyesm.htm

(Back to me now) Face it, the Yesworld site has been upfront about the tour and all the lineup changes. I would think that anyone who's a fan of the band and wants to see the band is a regular visitor to Yesworld and other related sites, such as this one. It's no secret about Jon and Rick's health concerns and their respective replacements. This lineup may not be exactly what everyone wants to see, but it's not as if though it's a Broadway show that you bought tickets for weeks ago and the day of the performance, instead of seeing Dustin Hoffman, you're seeing his understudy.

Life goes on. The band was contractually obligated to David touring with them, not Jon. Was Jon going to pay off David's fee for taking his place on stage? A contract is a contract, as any working musician knows. You live up to it or get your pants sued. I think Jon and Rick are perhaps overreacting a bit when circumstances dictated that they couldn't tour previously and now that they can, at least one of them seemingly can't understand why he's not being allowed to join the tour.

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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thehallway » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:05 pm

It does seem like a bit of an overreaction on Rick and Jon's part. Equally, I don't think the band should have toured as Yes. But as you say, surely no true Yesfan would buy tickets for this tour without checking who was in the band at the time, especially considering how often Yes changes its line-up. Does anybody know when Benoit's contract ends?
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby gtrpir8 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:01 am

Didn't Rick actually recommend Oliver as his replacement at the beginning of this whole situation last winter or spring when he decided he couldn't do a full scale tour? Seems that maybe be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. I know, oversimplification....
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby Chris2210 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:27 am

The unfortunate thing about this news is how revealing it is of the continuing tensions between the bandmates. It's pure speculation on my part, but whilst it appears Steve and Chris at least, are more content without the fractiousness of their relationships with Jon, there isn't going to be a huge degree of enthusiasm on their parts to see him back.

I think it's a great shame - Yes has always been greater than the sum of its parts [wonderful as they are individually]. Jon has always been a vital ingredient of that greatness so far as I'm concerned (Steve too). Without the principals it's always going to be something lesser. I would have hoped that Jon and Rick might at least have been drafted in for any recording, but much as I'd love to see that happen the guys are only human and I find it difficult to blame them for making their lives less difficult at this stage.

We could all wish they got along better, but highly creative people are often not the easiest to work with. It's ironic that it's collaboration [not only within Yes] that seems to bring out the best in them from an artistic point of view.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thesage » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:10 am

There do seem to be conflicting reports on Henry's site- earlier quotes from Jon supposedly says he was fine with Benoit and understood what the guys were doing, and yes Rick supposedly recommended Oliver for the gig- so perhaps these reports of disgruntlement are somewhat overstated and yes- more yes fans know of the current touring line up and its very clear on the yesworld site that Jon isn't part of the touring line up.However, if these rmours are true and Steve, Alan and Chris prefer the frictionless environment sans JA in their version of Yes, then here is a suggestion. JA and RW should be proactive and invite Trevor Rabin to tour with them, then get Tony Levin on bass and given Bill Bruford has retired, someone like Terry Bozzio who is no slouch on drums. They should then approach Brian Lane who organises a tour of "Jon Anderson, Rick Wakeman and Trevor Rabin of YES"
(in big letters or the logo if there are no legal issues) with guests Tony Levin and Terry Bozzio. They could make an album, called AWRLB then start a second before a suggestion is made to amalgamate with Steve Chris and Alan-- wait a minute this reminds me of something.....
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thehallway » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:37 pm

ReUnion
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby tardistraveler » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:34 pm

It's just so unfortunate that there's always been personal tensions among the band members - the fans get disappointed because their favorites can't get along . . . sad . . . :(
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby qman » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:39 pm

First 90 % of all people around the world buying a YES concert ticket for this tour do indeed know that Benoit David and Oliver Wakeman are in the band. The remaining 10% would not know the difference anyway LOL. TheSage is correct Rick and Jon should take the bull by the horns and recruit a few players (x yesman or not) and do a YES like CD and tour. Whats the harm? We have lived through YES WEST and ABWH so this is nothing new. And speaking of nothing new this tour with Benoit Daid and Oliver Wakeman is the DRAMA tour redone I remember we were all excited to see YES in a different fashion, it was cool and now years later everyone (well many) look back on the Drama album and tour fondly. As long as YES carries on in one form or another "all is good". Don't like the current line-up at at given time then stay home that's ok there are plenty of other people that want your seat at the show. The Drama album was excellent Steve Alan and Chris stepped up to the plate in the studio and it went well, I think they are thinking along those lines again with Oliver and Benoit. I expect an exciting new YES cd from this line-up and again that is a good thing. :eek:
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby yerweb1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:03 am

I would love to have more than one Yes group on tour. I liked the Benoit David version and also enjoyed a Jon Anderson solo show in 2008. I guess it's tempting for Steve et al to work without Jon and it still sound like Yes...

And to have Jon and Rick get Bill or Trevor (or Peter Banks!) back would be cool... so why not have two groups going?

Ok, Bill is retired and Banks too far gone from the group to be serious...but Trevor might do a few shows...
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby tardistraveler » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:13 pm

I don't mind saying I'm disappointed as well. I love Jon's presence in Yes - saw the HSW version of the thing and although it had its moments, it was lacking, in my book.

I really wish the players could get it all together and work together as a band. If that's not to be, then we, the fans, have to decide what we choose to see and listen to.

I could see some new band arising around Jon and Rick as well - time will tell.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thehallway » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:07 pm

For all we know these "in-band tensions" may be eaggerated to a certain extent. And even if Jon and Rick were really really annoyed, they are human beings; would any of us actually hold a grudge about something for more than a few days? Whether Yes ends up as two bands or one, and regardless of who is in it, I think I agree with qman. Yes has had so many surprises over the years and some albums/tours have been worse than others, but change is usually progress.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thesage » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:07 am

According to recent quotes attributed to Chris, Yes are now the current line up which means Oliver and Benoit are permanent members- seems Jon and Rick might be permanently disappointed- Rick is also attributed as saying he and JA will tour the US later in the new year- as per my previous post- see if Trevor Rabin is interested and get Simon Phillips or Terry Bozzio and Tony Levin- you would then have two version of Yes- each with three previous members of yes and each with one original member! Ahh the lawyers would have a field day!
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby happytheman » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:51 am

This subject has been "beaten to death" on another Yes "fan" site. So I'll just throw my 2 cents in and move along quietly.
Jon and Rick both had more than enough time over the last 6-7 years to have got off their duffs and put some material together and recorded.
I don't discount Jon's health issues but you don't have to look to far through the history books to see where TFTO came from Jon and Steve writing on the road during the CTTE tour. We had the 35th anniversary tour where I swear Rick was quoted that he and Jon were doing just that, writing material. But obviously nothing came of it. I do not begrudge Steve or Chris for wanting to move on with their careers as a band.
Bring on the new music, I think it will shine when we see what they are capable of together. I for one thoroughly enjoyed both shows I saw on their most recent tour (fall 08 & summer 09) Benoit will be fine on vocals with a studio album and Oliver obviously knows his stuff behind the keyboards.
Steve and Chris writing together should be interesting.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby qman » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:30 pm

In my best Austin Powers voice...."Yeah Baby"........ :D
Every now and then the ball bounces your way :-)
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thesage » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:29 am

"I guess it's tempting for Steve et al to work without Jon and it still sound like Yes..."
You know what's amazing to me, when I bought the DRAMA album in 1980 and looked in the gatefold cover and saw no JA or Rick in the photo I thought... what the hell is this!- t! But I took it home, with great hesitation put it on my dad's JH turntable and switched on the kenwood amp, put the headphones on and held my breath and.... heard the first few bars of machine messiah and thought.... this sounds much more promising (than Tormato- which at time I was most disappointed with after GFTO) then the vocals hit and I thought- Its YES and they're back! It was indeed a fine YES album. Having watched and listened to the current line up on youtube, and thank you so much to people for posting them as we haven't had a chance to see this line up in Oz, I have to say that Benoit almost channels JAs voice, far more than Trevor Horn- and remember one of the things that Chris said - read the Yes bio by Dan Hedges- is how much TH sounded like JA-. Yes(West) with TR and with TK back in the band was different too but still sounded like YES, none more so than on BG! Yes isn't JA, its the sum of its parts. For me this was clear when Yes finally toured OZ in 2003 AFTER 30 YEARS!!! and JA sand "Show Me" and said he wrote it during the Fragile recordings but it didn't make the album- it was a nice simple little song typical of JA but it wasn't Yes because it didn't have all the stuff that messers Howe, Squire, Wakeman Rabin or whoever are in the band at the time do with the material- chord substitutions, melody extensions, etc etc- If the "new this is now Yes" version with Benoit and Oliver produce an album equal to Drama then, IMHO, it will be better than almost anything since. And I would reiterate I would love to see JA, RW enlist Trevor and do a parallel Yes and see what happens and maybe after a period of time and sensibilities return we might see a ReUnion after all!
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby yerweb1 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:42 pm

It's interesting that the "Members" section at Yesworld has been dropped. They want to take the focus off the old members and onto the current lineup. But of course they still have links to alumini activites...
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thehallway » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:55 pm

Rick's Nov 9th interview he says the current line up is "just a tribute band". And that the band won't get the big finish it deserves, meaning no Rick (and/or possibly Jon) for good...
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby jimj1s » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:34 pm

I'm disappointed like everyone.
My take is that Jon and Rick are simply not up to the touring, and that is the crux of the tensions this time around. As far as the music goes, I think Jon's creativity is an essential part to most YES music, although Drama was a remarkable one-off.
Rick, I'm not so sure. He is my keyboard God, and I learned keyboards because of him, and copied his style to the best of my ability. That said, he has been surpassed in some individual efforts. Patrick Moraz was phenomenal in Relayer, but in my book could never match the styles on stage. I love Patrick - he played a solo concert at my house in 1995. But Yes is better with a classical-style keyboardist. But Rick has quit so many times that I just really don't want to see him rejoin.
I saw this lineup in Richmond VA, and thought the show was incredible. I would go again as much as possible. It was better than the Igor Koroshev versions of YES.
I wish they would hire Tom Brislin permanently. That guy is the most talented keyboard player I think they have had, as far as replacements.
Finally, I will wait to hear a new recording. I for one, think a new album with the current lineup will be fantastic.
As for Jon - I love him, I am obsessed with his music, and I will go see him perform anytime.
But I think his days with YES are over, and I wish him very well outside the band.
I just want to see the band playing and having fun. The current lineup is playing flawlessly, and are energized and happy. Let's let it roll - it is a good thing.
Peace out.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby Lyth » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:16 pm

thesage wrote:Yes isn't JA, its the sum of its parts.


Exactly.

And the music.

Rick stated on the 'Yesyears' documentary that he could see Yes continuing way into the future with different people playing the music long after the original band had gone.

It's beginning to happen.

Just a further development in the evolution of the band.

Personally, I can't wait to see them next week.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby topographic_drama1980 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:06 am

You know, happytheman's post started me thinking that not only did Jon and Rick have all that time to record something (since 2002), but also the other members had material as well, except the material went to different places.

Jon did some work for Apple, recorded some music (supposedly for an album called "The Big If) and did some visual stuff for them as well; Rick was still doing solo material and also worked the New English Rock Emsemble (the album "Out There", which was very good) and did some TV and radio; Chris Squire was writing material and recorded another Conspiracy album Billy Sherwood and was apparently supposed to release a new solo album; Steve Howe was still making solo albums (Skyline, Spectrum) and did one with SH's Remedy (Elements) and also got back with the Original Asia lineup and they made the album Phoenix, which I wasn't overly thrilled about; and finally Alan White had the band White, which also featured Geoff Downes, who still a member of Asia with John Payne.

My point: all this material that has come out over the past 6-7 years, the best of it anyway, would've made one hell of an extraordinary Yes album. It's a shame that the band has waited so long to put out a new album. The only real "new" song was "Show Me," and that was nothing more than a Jon solo tune, but it was still beautiful.

One good question to ask would be do you think Jon and Rick are disappointed that Yes didn't put out a new album sooner? It just seems to me that all this stuff going back and forth about recording new music, that Jon was the one who pretty much held Yes back all this time because he couldn't really make up his mind about whether or not to do a new album or just releasing DVD's or not doing anything at all for a few years.

I know he's only human and he's not getting any younger (he is 65, after all) and his health nowhere near perfect, but they shouldn't really be disappointed about the current lineup doing new material. I'm sure the band wants to very much and for several years now (definitely Steve and Chris in particular) they HAVE wanted to, but for one reason or another it didn't happen.

The thought of there being two Yes bands (again) is not a bad thought, but I doubt it would happen for very long. But of course there's that old saying: "never say never."

And the thought of Yes carrying on well into the future with new players, yeah it is happening, but how long will it last? Hopefully for a long, long time. Yes, in a way, could be considered to be like a rock n' roll orchestra anyway, right?

The music of Yes has always been greater than the sum of its parts, but it seems to matter WHO within Yes is making that music. Interesting, huh?
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby coalescestudionyc » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:34 pm

Excellent summation, topographic.

The thing that bothers me about Jon is that he starts projects and doesn't always finish them. I mean, I don't know all the details and behind-the-scenes machinations, but I'm glad you referenced Jon's project with Apple. I was really excited about it when I first saw it seven years ago, because here was one of my favorite musicians working with "my" computer company. After a few video updates...nothing. Rick is quite prolific—always working, always recording, and almost all of it stellar. I'd hate to think what would happen if Rick had a third arm. Steve doesn't seem to have an "off" switch, either, and Chris and Alan just keep chugging along.

Hopefully, they can pull off an acoustic tour next year, and maybe just one or two electric songs.

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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby yesman90125 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:02 pm

It's over, all that's left is to finish up the european tour

Rick said they wanted to do a final album and follow that up with 15 or so Yesweekends then release the highlights on DVD

I seriously doubt that will ever happen

Looking at the album sales on Mag and Ladder combined with the inability to put people in the seats
I cant see anybody that would be willing to finance a tour except the band members (much less promote a new album)

So when this tour is over I dont expect them to do anything as a group anymore

I'm sure that things like Circa and syn will go on as well as Steve Howe Jon Anderson , Rick Wakeman and Trevor Rabin Releasing solo material for a few more years
Perhaps various collaborations amongst band members for various projects.

that's ok
they've done more than most bands of their era and most of it pretty good.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby topographic_drama1980 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:34 pm

Speaking of Trevor Rabin, I wonder if there's any chance that he'll make another solo album. I know he's busy doing the movie scors, but I'd love to hear what kind of an album he'd make if it were to happen. It would be a neat thought to have Rick work with him. That would be a dynamite project right there!
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby N2yes » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:08 pm

Though I wish them luck, I can't see YES doing well without Jon at the helm. It's been so long, though, it's hard to say what will come out of it. Been a way a while, btw, and am glad to see the flame still burns regardless.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby Chris2210 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:18 pm

N2yes wrote:Though I wish them luck, I can't see YES doing well without Jon at the helm. It's been so long, though, it's hard to say what will come out of it. Been a way a while, btw, and am glad to see the flame still burns regardless.


Well they're performing very well and filled the venue I attended on the Sunday before last.

Personally I'd be sceptical they could produce a great album without Jon. But then they haven't produced any album with him in the past eight years. Magnification was for me the only completely satisfying album they've done since the 70s, but opinions are divided on that and it didn't sell.

I'd love to see the classic line-up reform, but it's clearly not viable. I imagine the band itself has scaled down their expectations [in terms of commerciality], but they actually want to do something and I'd rather have that than an alternative which seems to be nothing.

Having said all that - it's good to see you back gloomy-guts. ;) Hope things are going a bit better for you these days. Don't be a stranger...
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby thehallway » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:13 pm

Will Benoit and Oliver be doing any writing? Or do you think they should leave it to the older trio? I havn't heard any of their stuff from previous respective bands but it would be interesting to see them tackle the progressive genre (that is, if the band decide to write progressive songs at all!).

Has anyone heard the 'Aliens are only us from the future' song? What was that like? (from your singular hearing)
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby tardistraveler » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:45 pm

thehallway wrote:Has anyone heard the 'Aliens are only us from the future' song? What was that like? (from your singular hearing)


They played it here in Nashville . . . it was so-so . . . :rolleyes:
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby happytheman » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:05 am

tardistraveler wrote:They played it here in Nashville . . . it was so-so . . . :rolleyes:

You are being rather "generous" don't you think? When they performed it on the first leg of the tour, I rolled my eyes when Chris launched into it. The couple of boots I've heard since then showed me that it didn't get any better with time!
Apparently there is to be a version with Hackett?? anyone heard this version?
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby happytheman » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:07 am

N2yes wrote: Been a way a while, btw, and am glad to see the flame still burns regardless.

Howdy stranger! (Mind you, I only drop in from time to time myself to see what conversations are going on). Hope all is well up in your part of the world! Have a happy holiday season if we don't bump into each other in another thread.
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Re: Jon and Rick Disappointed

Postby N2yes » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:58 am

I'm sure we will, HTM. Thanks, Chris. It surely has been a long while. Your point is well made as the alternative is without a doubt, totally undesirable. Sure would like to know what the future may hold...the near future, that is. ; )
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