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The Ladder...to love or hate...that is the question.



The Ladder...to love or hate...that is the question.

Postby jmangum » Mon Mar 12, 2001 8:20 am

I find it fascinating how YES fans either shred The Ladder or put it up there in their "Top 10".
IMHO, The Ladder was a wonderful piercing power play machine..;)
Seriously, perhaps we expect too much and fail to simply enjoy the music for what it is.
I have heard Anderson sang too much....waaaa.
I love the lyrics and the music...it makes me dance and takes me higher.
Well, if it holds you back..then you are simply held back.
My advice...let go...life is too magical to complain and whine and find all the mistakes.
While you are busy doing that, you miss the magic of the moment.
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Postby N2yes » Mon Mar 12, 2001 10:00 am

Well, no worries from this angle as I simply can't get enough of it. Though no YES release is ever mediocre, this one catapulted them right back to where they used to be IMO. Regrettably, I was unable to see the tour but, if The House of Yes DVD is any indication, it would appear that I missed out on a stunning performance. There is talk of another epic-type effort in the wings, and, if true, well, this too should be a gem. I believe "The Ladder" is indicative of a reinvented YES, one that will continue to astound us all. Time will soon tell.<img src=icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle><font color=teal></font id=teal>
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Postby poodeeo » Mon Mar 12, 2001 11:36 pm

The Ladder is a great GROUP effort. The lyrics are by far Jon's least cryptic, and the melodies are strong. It's hard for fans to think about YES in the present moment, always yearning for that Fragile & CTTE sound. Best we accept them the way they are and quit whining. When I want to hear the old stuff, all I have to do is pop in a cd/video/dvd and I'm there. I always can count on the boys to suprise me with something different, and the next LP will be no exception.
Think about it: these guys still LOVE what they do, and what other bands from there era are still around, still touring to YES' extent, and have such a loyal fan base? There ain't such an animal. Just love this band and be thankful.

we have heaven
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Postby every1is1 » Tue Mar 13, 2001 9:24 am

I love The Ladder! It's so easy to get into...fits like a glove. Anderson is still finding a way to make his voice work. I sing to it...I dance to it...and the message is so clear.
I agree poodeeo...we do have heaven.
However, there is one band, or person, that is playing and touring to Yes' extent...a person with the same spiritual (life) message...SANTANA.
Wouldn't it be great to see YES and Santana together?
The Moody Blues is close, but they don't put out as much material as they use to.
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Postby N2yes » Tue Mar 13, 2001 12:21 pm

Ah...Carlos! I have seen Santana 5 times to date and every time they were great and of course He was! Probably the time I was most impressed was right after Caravanesseri( check spelling ). This man played blistering lead...so clear and clean!! However, it would appear that he has sacrificed originality for da bucks! This great talent offers his services for some of the most talentless people on that recent release. He gambled on hitting the mainstream, something he never needed to do. Oh well...tis the fate of many. I do know what you mean though...a joint session with YES (prior to the sellout)would have provided many with a wonderful evening. By the way, talk about an expressive musician...WOW..Carlos has got to be hovering at the no. 1 spot!!!<img src=icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle><font color=teal></font id=teal>
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Postby N2yes » Tue Mar 13, 2001 12:23 pm

I must add that I for one am very thankful!! Will be even more so by the time the next tour comes around!!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><font color=teal></font id=teal>
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Postby Seryn » Wed Mar 14, 2001 2:24 am

The Ladder is another dose of Close to the Edge, IMHumbleO. And I absolutely love the album. Just ask the ppl who have to live with me! All I hear from them is..."Can't you give that CD a rest?"

<hr>BeFree
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Postby N2yes » Wed Mar 14, 2001 2:58 am

Well Seryn, you know that we both share in that impression of "The Ladder". Allow me this moment to acknowledge your most exquisite taste in YES music!!!!<img src=icon_smokin.gif border=0 align=middle><font color=teal></font id=teal>
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Postby yeskat » Wed Mar 14, 2001 2:59 am

When I first listened to The Ladder my feelings were mixed, as that is how I have reacted at first to some of their albums of the past (Tales, for one). After listening a few times more, it captivated me. Now I can't get enough. The Ladder has a taste of their past, and offers a taste of a few things they don't normally create. This is one of the things I appreciate about this band. Once in a while they toss some surprises out for us. Some consider this album "weak". I can't agree. All in all, I consider The Ladder energetic, vibrant, strong, and magical. It always leaves me revitalized, and hungry for more. I agree that some people are too busy trying to pick the music apart and keep waiting for another Fragile or CTTE or whatever -- but wake up! Enjoy the HERE and NOW and the Yes of TODAY, or as someone else already stated; you will miss out on the magic of the moment. I have to say, it is heartening to know that many others agree with me...
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Postby massos » Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:45 am

I think "The ladder" is a great album. Different, but up there with some of their classics. It switched me back on to Yes after having seriously switched off following the abysmal "Union" album. What really comes out of "The ladder" is that the band sound like they really had a happy time making the album; it simply makes me feel good when I play it. Sure, there are some great "yes-like" epics such as "homeworld" and "new language" on it. But also uplifting tracks; my 8 and 5 year old daughters keep asking me to play them "lighting strikes" and "It will be a good day" and actually sing along to "If only you knew". Talk about winning over some new young fans!
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Postby every1is1 » Sun Mar 25, 2001 1:56 pm

No doubt Massos...Ladder is a very "happy" sounding album. My neice also sings to "If Only You Knew" and "It Will Be a Good Day"
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Postby wurm_8465 » Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:37 pm

the ladder is far more better than 90125 or big generator
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Postby massos » Fri Mar 30, 2001 8:21 pm

Out of interest how did "The Ladder" do commercially? Did it chart in the US. From what I can see Talk and subsequent albums
have not done well commercially?
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:02 pm

When I got the Ladder when it came out, I hated it. I thought Lightning Strikes was the dumbest thing I ever heard, whats with this Samba sample and the horn section?? And all this light-rock crap? Why are they writing porno music now?? (intro to messenger)

Actually now I appreciate the album a lot more than when I bought it. Ive been listening to it a lot lately and ya know, it aint so bad!! Its not a great album, but theres more cool stuff on it than I thought at first. I like a lot of songs I hated at first, but i still stand my ground that "If Only You Knew" is the worst thing theyve ever done!! That's the sappiest shit Ive ever heard! That song is so terrible....Ill take any song off of OYE instead of this garbage!

Another reason that I never revisited it--They didnt play the songs i wanted to hear in concert!!!! I wanted

New Languages
Hep Yadda
Nine Voices
Homeworld


I got one of the 4. I was bummed! They played all the mediocre ones!
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Postby every1is1 » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:13 pm

You know, that's a trippy thing<img src=pix/icon_cnfzd.gif border=0 align=middle>...
How music can get better the more you listen to it.
In fact, when I think about it,<img src=pix/silly.gif border=0 align=middle> with all of my favorite albums, from any band, when I first listened to any of those albums, I generally was disappointed. Then, the more I listened, the more I liked. I think this phenomenon is due to the fact that I came with expectations that were to high, and, consequentially, I was let down.
Now, I'm learning, to lower my expectations.
I think the best one could do is get rid of them all together, then all of life would be bonus!
"Lightning Strikes" is a cool tune, and the more I listen to The Ladder, the more I like it too.
It pays to keep an open mind and give things a chance.
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Postby fragilesi » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:19 am

I'm definitely with the majority . . . some great moments and "Homeworld" and "New Language" stack up against the classics in my mind. I've heard a number of complaints about the fact that for example Squire revisits the Roundabout bass line in New Language but I thought that this was inspirational - even though apparently he had to be coerced into it by other band members!

There's some stuff that I'm not particularly keen on occupying space on the album but most of it including "If Only You Knew" is listenable. I don't see why that one should get particular criticism personally.

Simon.
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Postby Yessong » Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:46 am

What can I say - I LOVE THIS ALBUM. It's playing in my computor as I sit here at work RIGHT NOW! I have always found that the best YES LPS are the ones that you have to listen to at least 3 times before you pick out the melodies and hooks. 3 times the charm for me.
Strangley enough Home World is not one of my picks from this LP, although it does have it's moments. The beat on Lightning Strikes is just infectuous - how can you not stamp your feet when this diddy is on? And I love the middle section - I wish there was an extended mix that has more of it like Peter Gabriel did with the In Your Eyes EP. He incorporated more of the African parts from that song. People, this is the happiest lp I have and with a collection of almost 400 CD's and 200 LP's that's saying something.
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:32 pm

Hey Simon I want a copy of Live At The Half Moon! How do I get one?

And Yessong how can Homeworld NOT be one of your picks from the album. Its the best thing on there! Homeworld definately ranks up there with the classics, thats one of my favortie Yes songs. I just really wished they wouldve thought of something different than that schlocky electric piano part in "New Language" It sounds like the Doogie Howser theme song or something. It wouldnt have been as bad if it wouldve been an acoustic piano patch, or better a totally different part. Other than that part its a killer tune. That part never grew on me like I hoped it would, I cringe when that part of the song comes on and sometimes I fast forward through it.

Even though the songs have grown on me, I still think that some of the arrangements are a little too ordinary for Yes. If they wouldve made It Will Be A Good day into an extended arrangement, with some time changes and other stuff to make it sound less like a Chicago 80's era power ballad, it wouldve been really good. Thats another reason I dont like If Only You Knew--it's SO easy listening! It just sounds to bland and sounds like swiss cheese.
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Postby fragilesi » Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:30 pm

Eric,

Check out the website www.yestribute.com for how to get the CD. Any questions let me know.

I definitely agree with you on Homeworld though it has what I probably very poorly term "Classic Yes Moments" . . . Some of the vocals are simply exciting and the sense of grandeur that it evokes is as impressive as the theme of the song demands.

Although I was a big fan of some of the Keys stuff I think that this has a much more "Yes" feel about it somehow.

Fragilesi <img src=pix/icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby N2yes » Sat Apr 21, 2001 9:19 am

My one fear is that YES, in their quest to push the musical envelope, may lose the ground retaken with "The Ladder" when they "merge" with the orchestral arrangements slated for the near future. I hope this will not prove prophetic.<font color=blue></font id=blue>

<hr>Experience everything as it comes true
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Postby EricBliss12345 » Mon Apr 30, 2001 1:28 am

I Simon! Ie always said Yes sounded more like Yes without Wakeman than with him in the 90's! you might like the Keys To ascention thread at the bottom of the page.
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Postby earthmotherearth » Mon Apr 30, 2001 3:22 am

I just listened to The Ladder again last week after giving it about a 4 month break. It sounded really fresh. I also turned someone on to the band that day. They could not believe how good it was and loved the lyrics and positive vibe. I was struck by how good the sound and production is. Jon's voice is incredible. I wish some of these songs had received some radio play. Like Finally, Hep Yada, and Face to Face. I think people would really respond to them if given the chance. The only song I could do without on The Ladder is IOYK. Which is about 2 minutes too long and a bit repetitive. I am sure glad they started off in Florida on The Ladder tour because we got to see Nine Voices and New Languages -- both of which came off on stage very well. The DVD from that tour is good. But who films these guys?? Certainly not a fan or somebody who is familar with the music. I got frustrated watching it because they would focus on the wrong person at the wrong point in the song. Plus there were too many head shots and not enough long shots of the stage. I love seeing the stage from father back because it takes on an organic energy that makes it look like a being unto itself and that is always really really cool to behold.
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Postby Lyth » Mon Apr 30, 2001 4:35 am

<img src=pix/icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle>
I feel that The Ladder is a very strong album. However, I think that it suffers from the fact that there is just too much material on it.
It's about an hour long, which seems to be the norm for CDs. If it were a vinyl album (approx 40 minutes) I am sure that 'quality control' would have come into being and they would have taken out Can I, Face To Face, Lightning Strikes, and The Messenger.
The remaining tracks would have made an album up there with CTTE, Relayer, and GFTO instead of something quite close.
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Postby Yes-Loon » Tue May 01, 2001 12:59 am

I listen to the Ladder when I drive too and from work in the car. I like it, it´s a good mood LP, a diverse mix of styles and influences. IF ONLY YOU KNEW that I was speaking a NEW LANGUAGE, and I thought IT´LL BE A GOOD DAY, and it felt good TO BE ALIVE, and I found I had heard NINE VOICES. FINALLY the LIGHTNING STRIKES, and I mused can I see THE MESSENGER FACE TO FACE. I the decided to drive back to my HOMEWORLD.
<img src=pix/silly.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_cnfzd.gif border=0 align=middle>

As you can see I drive too and from work a lot!!!
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Postby every1is1 » Tue May 01, 2001 2:25 pm

The Ladder too long????!!??
Take out some songs?????
An hour is too much???
Hey, you took out some of my favorite music....I'm glad the boys didn't decide to do that.
I'll tell you what...I wish that they would have given us 2 hours....I'll eat it up...every last note....it's all good.<img src=pix/icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Postby fragilesi » Tue May 01, 2001 7:51 pm

I wonder why they took New Language and Nine Voices out of the set, I thought that they would both be definite shoe-ins for the duration of the tour. I love hearing the classics and would go again and again and again just to listen to them but I could have done without just one or two of them to include these. Personally I'd rather have had them than a couple of the others they played off the album.

I would have thought that both would have been better live than The Messenger or indeed It'll be a Good Day.

<img src=pix/icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>Si
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Postby Lyth » Wed May 02, 2001 2:38 am

<img src=pix/icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle>
My dear every1is1, I didn't say that The Ladder was too long.
What I was saying (or attempting to say) is that in the days of vinyl where there was a 'time limit' for an album (roughly 40 minutes) there was the need to fit the best 40 minutes worth of music on there.
That is what makes albums such as CTTE, Relayer, and GFTO the masterpieces that they are - the need to make the best of the limited time available.
Many other of my favourite bands (Rush, Genesis, Tull, Floyd)have done the same on their more recent releases where the 'classic' albums have been high quality due to the need to work the best ideas within a specified time frame.
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Postby fragilesi » Wed May 02, 2001 3:32 pm

That's a really interesting point, if the Ladder were cut down to the "best" forty minutes could it rank with the classics? I think for me it could get quite close, much closer than anything since well . . . the classics!

However, it's a good thing that they didn't because judging by what people like on the album a few would have missed out on the tracks that they rate very highly if I had my way!



<img src=pix/icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>Si
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Postby Lyth » Thu May 03, 2001 4:32 am

<img src=pix/icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle>
What would be the running order of your 'forty minute' Ladder, Fragilesi?

By the way, I'm going to see Fragile in Crewe tomorrow night.....

I hope to be impressed.
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Postby every1is1 » Tue May 08, 2001 1:13 pm

Fascinating. Actually, I would like to see more depth in some of their songs. 40 minutes of awesome changes and instrumentation on fewer songs......as long as they put out the rest of Ladder in another album, or 2, like the good old days of 71'<img src=pix/icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>
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