Does The Ladder really suck?



Does The Ladder really suck?

Postby Greenglade » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:37 am

Maybe it's Talk or Ladder for my next purchase or ...90125 and BG, alternates if Best Buy or Tower or Borders doesn't have the former.

OYE sort of sucks. Onion as two good songs--Got that determined.

Isn't "Holy Lamb" that really powerful building serious emotional song?

I guess Talk must have at least 75% good stuff on it. Not too many chick-flick type songs, but sensitive.

Whatever, got a month to decide.
Greenglade

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:09 am
Location: Carmel/LA, California, USA.

Postby jackalz » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:17 am

I think your best bet is to go into any choice you make without expectations or maybe even with low expectations. It is all OK (doesn't suck) IMO. But there will be an adjustment period to get used to the unique sound. I've learned to love just about every song on every album by excepting it for what it is. They didn't want to remake the same songs, so they experiment a lot. It takes a while to get it, but once I did get it, I was able to listen over and over with the same ecstatic smile on my face to all these releases. But not at first.

<hr>Next to your deeper fears, we stand surrounded by a million years. Go closer hold the land...
jackalz

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 5:53 am
Location: Greater Cincinnati, Kentucky, USA.

Postby Jon Flanagan » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:16 pm

No it doesn't suck...it just has a highly inflated reputation...very overrated. This album begins with a bang...and I mean a BANG...and then goes flaccid for about four songs until " Finally," meanders again, and ends in gentle beauty with " nine Voices." Yes, as they do now, needed a producer to weed out the garbage and make it more concise and to the point, and with Bruce Fairbain, they were able to accomplish that...albeit briefly; It's a shame he died, as I think a more nutured relationship with the band, along with Rick Wakeman and better material, could have resulted in a more cohesive effort. For all my knocks on Billy Sherwood, I think he really came up with some great stuff, as did Igor...fresh blood can help...though it does have Alan White's worst drumming on a Yes album...plods along, and his sound is so compressed...ugggghhh...c'mon Alan...let's get the mojo going again!
Jon Flanagan

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: .

He heard you saying that, Jon.

Postby N2yes » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:08 am

<---------Even while he's playing, he heard that!
"Master of images-Songs cast a light on you"
N2yes

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 5443
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, USA.

Postby Astral traveller » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:12 am

The Ladder is certainly not one of my fav. Yes albums. Though the two highlights for me (Homeworld and Nine Voices) are very strong songs, the stuff in between it, doesn't really hold up after repeated listenings.
Astral traveller

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:38 am
Location: Near Rotterdam, The Netherlands

Postby Chris2210 » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:47 am

The Ladder is a very commercial album which I liked for quite a while. But as others have said it seems to be relatively lacking in depth and doesn't bear up too well on over repeated listening.

Even the two tracks everyone seems to agree are highlights I have some reservations on. Homeworld is really rather too much of a patiche of their 70s style, whilst Nine Voices (IMO) is let down by a musically banal first chorus.

As a commercial album Talk is far more consistent and successful by those lights. I think Jacalz is right though; go in with no expectations and you should be able to find something to enjoy on just about any album the band has produced (even :gasp: OYE).
I used to be agnostic. These days I'm not so sure.
Chris2210

User avatar
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 5:00 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Yorkshire, United Kingdom.

Postby Vaguson » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:09 pm

I agree with everything Chris just posted here, Ladder, Talk, OYE: the works.

How true.
In the beginning is the future...and the future is at hand.
Vaguson

User avatar
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:34 am
Location: State of Play

In Defense of Climbing ( [i]THE LADDER[/i])

Postby N2yes » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:12 pm

I can see where one could confuse the positive sounds of THE LADDER with an attempt at commercialism. However, I don't think this is what they were after at all. For me, THE LADDER, with Steve back in full force and with Fairbairn at the production helm, there was a musical statement to be made. I hear echoes of the past in this record and there is also a full-force drive to erase the banal aspects that much of OYE regrettably possessed. High energy and a fresh approach, a successful combination in my book.
"Master of images-Songs cast a light on you"
N2yes

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 5443
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, USA.

Postby Fishes » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:36 pm

the ladder is one of my favorite contempoary yes albums. it took a while to grow on me, but when it did i absolutely loved it. the vocal harmonies and the sheer musicianship are beyond words amazing
THE FISH
"If I ever needed someone, you were there when I needed you"
Fishes

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:52 am
Location: LaVale, Maryland, USA.

Postby Greenglade's Frog » Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:41 pm

:) Cool, maybe I'll get it then. Where's the best place to get it online?
My local record stores don't carry it.
[CENTER][font=Arial][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/font][/CENTER]
Greenglade's Frog

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: California, on the Edge of the Continent

Postby Relayer » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:36 pm

I like CD Universe myself, they seem to have most every disc I want in stock,
you can always check you're order status at any time, and cancel stuff if you find it before it is shipped, disc's that are on backordered sometimes take a month or so to fill, but that's typical of small run, hard to find disc's.
The Ladder doesn't suck, it is much better,IMHO, than OYE, Talk is my favorite, but that usually doesn't appeal to those who dislike Trevor Rabin,
both disc's have strong songs, some better than others, but neither disc disappoints me,just an opinion. same goes for 90125 and BG.
Relayer

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 8:19 pm

Postby TenVoices » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:52 pm

N2yes wrote:I can see where one could confuse the positive sounds of THE LADDER with an attempt at commercialism. However, I don't think this is what they were after at all. For me, THE LADDER, with Steve back in full force and with Fairbairn at the production helm, there was a musical statement to be made. I hear echoes of the past in this record and there is also a full-force drive to erase the banal aspects that much of OYE regrettably possessed. High energy and a fresh approach, a successful combination in my book.


If I could only state the above as clearly...N2 and I have the exact same feelings on this album. It is a better than average Yes album. Thank the maker Fairbairn was producing. I still think he made the difference.

I don't see commercialism in this album at all. Just great Yes music.
TenVoices

Charter Member
 
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:48 am
Location: Little Elm, Texas, USA.

Postby tardistraveler » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:57 am

I LOVE The Ladder!

I'm not good at dissecting things musically - did someone play better on this or that, or more complicated? I just know what I enjoy, and how the music makes me feel. And The Ladder fills me with joy! I love the entire album as a whole.
tardistraveler

User avatar
 
Posts: 6904
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:17 am
Location: Nashville, TN, USA.

Postby yesireebob » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:35 am

I love the Ladder, too! I did take a while for it to grow on me as a whole; I started out loving a few songs and skipping others. Now I love the whole thing start to finish! The only questionable number is If Only You Knew, a little Carpenters for my taste, but a good pop tune if you are up for that.
yesireebob

 
Posts: 2131
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:14 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby flowering » Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:43 pm

Some songs on the album are quite uninteresting to me and i think Open your eyes has greater moments (universal garden) but however the ladder definetly has its place in yesdiscography and thats ok. i like homeworld!
flowering

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 9:22 pm
Location: torgau, sachsen, Germany.

Postby Yessong » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:45 pm

I'll take ladder over OYE, or, for that matter, "Talk" which I have never liked - I listen to it once a year and everytime I dislike it more - sorry - Ladder is definately the way to go.
Yessong

Charter Member
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 5:50 am
Location: East Setauket, New York, USA.

Postby aitomies » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:08 pm

For me, The Ladder is a fine album, better(*) than Magnification, (and therefore OYE, Keystudio, Drama, BG, etc) and I'm disappointed that the band have left it out of the setlist on recent tours. However, there's no contest with Talk which is Rabin's Yes masterpiece and a 'must buy' after the TYA to GFTO sequence.

(*)I wish I could give an account of how one album is to me better than another, but it's purely the subjective thing of how often it gets played, and how much I like hearing it
memories trail over days of forgotten tales
aitomies

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:49 pm
Location: Leicester, United Kingdom.

Postby YesJodi » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:20 am

I enjoy the Ladder, and Mag, not crazy about OYE though. Talk is good too. :)
YesJodi

User avatar
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:20 am
Location: 20 minutes from Philly, PA

Postby happytheman » Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:40 am

I too enjoy the Ladder very much, I only wished Igor had done more albums with Yes, I think there was a lot of potential with him in the band. Oh well we can only "hope" the band does some "new" material with Rick rather than year after year of touring the "same" set list they played in the 70's. This may seem harsh but Yes needs to "grow up". Do they realize it's 2004?
happytheman

Charter Member
 
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: .

Postby flowering » Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:54 am

It does not really suck but i hope that they won't do an album like that again.

To me this is not progressive Rock! Open your Eyes is even more progressive than the ladder.
flowering

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 9:22 pm
Location: torgau, sachsen, Germany.

Postby Klerxst » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:23 am

I am a big fan of The Ladder. It was such a big shock to hear a great Yes album after the disappointing Keys and Open Your Eyes(both of which have their moments, but are lacking as cohesive wholes IMO). Once Rabin left the band, I didn't think Yes would ever make a great album or even a truly great songs ever again. The Ladder is a great album and has at least three or four great songs on it.
Klerxst

Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:08 am

I LIKE IT!

Postby soul warrior » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:01 am

i like the ladder very much. i was very surprised by the direction this cd took when i first heard it and like alot of new music, some of it took a while to grow on me. the surprise fav for me was "lightning strikes". i find it an infectous 7/4 groove. i love it when squire plays in that time signature! for me, "nine voices" is possibly the best yes song since since the GFTO cd. should have been about 10 minutes longer though. although i am a fan of the old yes sound, i would not be dissappointed with another cd in this direction.
soul warrior

Veteran Member
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:22 am

Postby IWas Sam » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:22 pm

I don't think this one aged particularly well. I sort of liked it when it came out, but I listened to it last week in my car and found it not so good. They tried to hard (I think) to recapture the 70s sound and missed .
IWas Sam

Active Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:52 pm

Postby Terry Shea » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:15 am

IWas Sam wrote:I don't think this one aged particularly well. I sort of liked it when it came out, but I listened to it last week in my car and found it not so good. They tried to hard (I think) to recapture the 70s sound and missed .
Well, they tried on a few songs and that was about it. I think that's the main reason the album came off as such a disappointing effort for a lot of us. They promised us a progressive album and really only delivered 2 or 3 songs that could really be classified as progressive. I think they spread themselves too thin trying to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one. Too many easy listening, reggae and downright silly songs for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all of the aforementioned at least to some degree, but that isn't why I listen to Yes.
My personal myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/terryshea
My music myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/ahdubicke
Ignore the problem and it will go away.-some dead moron
Terry Shea

User avatar
Charter Member
 
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:02 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA.

Postby YesFanfromSA » Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:03 am

I like The Ladder very much even thogh it's far from being the best Yes album ever. I love the classic Yes even though I still love the Yes from the 80's which I don't think will be around anywhere in the near future. Homeworld is my absolute favourite song on the CD. Great arrangement, great vocals, great everything.
[|)] rules!!!
YesFanfromSA

Member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:40 am
Location: Utah (originally from Cape Town, South Africa)

Postby topographic_drama1980 » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:21 am

Yeah, Homeworld is the best song on the album, IMO. The Ladder's not the best Yes, but it's not the worst either. It has its good moments and it has its not so good moments. My major faves from the album are Homeworld, Lightning Strikes, Finally, If Only You Knew, and Nine Voices. Did anyone notice that various parts of the album rip off certain themes from the band's past? Like Nine Voices is just a glorified version of Your Move, Can I? is practically We Have Heaven (it even has the words We Have Heaven sang in the tune), and in the middle section of New Language is bassline from Roundabout. Not that I'm totally criticizing the album, but it's really progressive as it is "regressive," but overall a good album.
Ascend and Create!
topographic_drama1980

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Wood, Pennsylvania

Postby CoinsAndCrosses » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:12 am

YesFanfromSA wrote:I like The Ladder very much even thogh it's far from being the best Yes album ever. I love the classic Yes even though I still love the Yes from the 80's which I don't think will be around anywhere in the near future.


You're such a YESWHOLE!...me too!...chris
"Imperial battleship... stop the flow of time!" - The Emperor of the First Circle of the Universe -Starcrash (1979)
CoinsAndCrosses

User avatar
Active Member
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 8:29 am
Location: Memphis, TN USA.

Postby CoinsAndCrosses » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:16 am

Terry Shea wrote:Well, they tried on a few songs and that was about it. I think that's the main reason the album came off as such a disappointing effort for a lot of us. They promised us a progressive album and really only delivered 2 or 3 songs that could really be classified as progressive. I think they spread themselves too thin trying to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one. Too many easy listening, reggae and downright silly songs for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all of the aforementioned at least to some degree, but that isn't why I listen to Yes.


I like the album but it has some blah parts on it. I remember when they were promoting the album over the Internet. They had this little montage from all the songs that you could listen to. They picked all the blah parts. Will YES (or its ever-revolving management) ever learn?... chris
"Imperial battleship... stop the flow of time!" - The Emperor of the First Circle of the Universe -Starcrash (1979)
CoinsAndCrosses

User avatar
Active Member
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 8:29 am
Location: Memphis, TN USA.

Postby doogee » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:42 am

Put in simple Brit terms it's a BLOODY GOOD ALBUM ! and if you knock it i will come to your house and bite your bum :p
12 YEARS 44 WEEKS SMOKE FREE
doogee

User avatar
Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Sheffield Wednesday F.C.U.K.

The Ladder

Postby EricBliss12345 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:48 am

Overall, it's not too bad. It's also not too good either, but leans more towards the good side.

It's a very light album, bordering fluffy for most of the tracks. What saves some the mostly mediocre songs is the excellent world music instrumentation and the classic yes keyboard sounds, courtesy of Igor. The production is also very colorful, and interesting accents in the tonal picture make tolerable tunes out of what would otherwise be a trifle unbearable. Take "Lightning Strikes" for example. The horns really add to the energy of the track a lot. And you know what, those tribal drums on the middle-8 are also very cool, not to mention Chris's short but powerful bass run before the verse kicks back in. Also, after one part of the verse theres this very brief sub-bass analog synth surge, just for an accent. The digeredoo is also a surprising, yet welcome addition to the "Your Move" ripoff "Nine Voices" and the koto intro to "The River" is also quite refreshing. It's the little things like that that make this album. "The Messenger" catches Yes playing in a tastefully out-of-character groove for them. Sonically, this album is a real treat, but the songs are of such little substance that I rarely feel the urge to revisit them, and when I do, I wouldn't be mad if the batteries ran out in my cd player mid-play.

They scored big-time with the nostalgic "Homeworld (The Ladder)" which is one of the top-three best songs they've done since Going For The One. Regressive it may be, but I like the vintage Yes sound the best, thank you very much. "New Language" also comes close to classic Yes as well, and has some great jammy sections, rippin' Howe guitar and hammond organ duels, and a great chorus. Very, VERY bad verse, which is where it loses points. A little too Doogie Howser for my tastes.

"Nine Voices" I'm also a big fan of, and "Hep Yadda" is ok and the second half of "Finally." I'd also like to mention that the album contains one of their most disgusting songs ever, the sickening ballad "If Only You Knew." Thankfully, it doesn't take up much of the album.

Overall its definately one of the more solid efforts of theirs in the last 20 years, and far better than the previous album or its follow-up.
EricBliss12345

Starship Trooper
 
Posts: 2507
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: New Castle, PA

Next

Return to Album talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron