"Bonus" Tracks



"Bonus" Tracks

Postby Gary » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:27 pm

Recently replaced missing and imperfect CDs with new ones. Many of my old favorites now come with 5 or 6 added or bonus tracks. Many of these tracks are just different versions of the prviously released song or a rehearsal studio version.

How do you all feel about theses added tracks?

On the albums that I feel were perfect, such as CTTE, TYA, Relayer, Tales, Fragile, etc., I'm not a fan of them. On less important albums (IMO) I don't care. I like keeping the integrity of the classics.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:45 pm

I'm still missing that delicious feeing of slipping a fingernail into the shrinkwrap and sliding it across the open edge of the cover of a brand new Yes LP, feeling the rush borne of weeks (sometimes, months) of anticipation for the Tuesday that the album was released. Everyone was saying, "Oh man! Wait till you hear the first song!" And the radio stations were going wild.

Bonus tracks? What for?

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Postby Terry Shea » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:46 pm

Some of the bonus tracks are truly terrible, especially the vocals on a lot of the early tracks. Others are awesome. I especially like the bonus tracks on Tormato and Drama and adding America to Fragile is a no brainer. I think the biggest disappointment for me was the studio version of Clap. I expected it to be so much better. All in all I like the bonus tracks though. If i don't want to hear them I just don't play them.
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Postby guilddigger » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:02 am

to me the bonus tracks are interesting in the way that they give a hint of how yes work in the studio and how the songs develop from idea to final version. a good example is "and you and i".
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Postby happytheman » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:13 pm

Question is where are the "missing" tracks. Cinema full length version? Two songs from Drama era that will now be released on new "Live" album. And a couple of tracks they put on the "last" box set should have been saved for the re-releases. But on the other hand the track It's over is the best thing on 90125 and the early version of "The Ancient" is very "King Crimson" like very interesting had Yes continued down that path.
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Postby flowering » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:36 pm

I do not think that the ancient is king crimson like. The only thing this track has in common with kc music is that it is pretty weird.
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Postby topographic_drama1980 » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:07 pm

The only thing that bugs me about the Drama re-issue is that the Buggles+Squire+Bruford demo of "We Can Fly From Here" was not put on there. I guess "Go Through This" was just a backing track that wasn't fully made into a song until the tour started up. At least those two songs will officially be released on the live box set. At least they'll be somewhere. Not that I totally care, but I was wondering why the single versions of "Roundabout" and "And You And I" weren't put on as bonus tracks.
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Postby Gary » Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:57 pm

Roan's Lady wrote:I'm still missing that delicious feeing of slipping a fingernail into the shrinkwrap and sliding it across the open edge of the cover of a brand new Yes LP, feeling the rush borne of weeks (sometimes, months) of anticipation for the Tuesday that the album was released. Everyone was saying, "Oh man! Wait till you hear the first song!" And the radio stations were going wild.

Bonus tracks? What for?

Oh how I remember those days. Now, they wrap the CD's like fort knox. Plastic wrap (with no opening for your finger nail), an adhesive strip across the top and sometimes bottom of the case, then a security thingy pasted behind the plastic inside.

I remember WPLJ playing complete newly released albums. Thinking about has me very nostalgic. I'm missing Pat St. John, Carole Miller, Tony Pigg, etc. These DJ's really knew and liked what they spun.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:49 pm

Gary wrote:Oh how I remember those days. Now, they wrap the CD's like fort knox. Plastic wrap (with no opening for your finger nail), an adhesive strip across the top and sometimes bottom of the case, then a security thingy pasted behind the plastic inside.

I remember WPLJ playing complete newly released albums. Thinking about has me very nostalgic. I'm missing Pat St. John, Carole Miller, Tony Pigg, etc. These DJ's really knew and liked what they spun.

Wow...trippin' down Memory Lane with those names, Gary. Did you listen to WIOQ out of Philly? Ed Sciaky and his band of merry men and women. I was a devout follower. Amazing grown-up role models of great musical taste. Kids don't have that anymore - it's a shame.
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Postby Gary » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:20 pm

Roan's Lady wrote:Wow...trippin' down Memory Lane with those names, Gary. Did you listen to WIOQ out of Philly? Ed Sciaky and his band of merry men and women. I was a devout follower. Amazing grown-up role models of great musical taste. Kids don't have that anymore - it's a shame.

Nope, didn't get any Philly stations. The other station we listened to was WNEW. Names such as Vince Scelsa (as mentioned in the Ramones song, Not My Place) Meg Griffin, Pete Fornatelle, and of course Scott Muni pop up.

And, it is a shame.
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Postby yerweb1 » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:14 pm

The best bonus cuts I have heard are:

Going For The One
The studio jam for GFTO

Tormato
The demo for Does It Really Happen

Drama
Remix of Run through The light
Studio run of Tempus Fugit

90125
Leave It acapella
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Postby thrill » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:26 am

Most of the bonus tracks from Yes are just fluff. They don't record real b-sides, actual songs, so they just pick out this filler stuff like demo versions or a live track -- those types of "so-called" bonus tracks do nothing for me. The earlier set of remasteres from Atlantic are still the best. Who wants to hear all that extra.....stuff, after listening to a classic album? Better for the cd to just end after the songs we know and love.
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Postby topographic_drama1980 » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:10 am

I still find it rather funny that on the reissue of Drama, the total time of the bonus tracks are longer than the actual album! :D
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Postby Whitefish » Sat May 06, 2006 9:38 pm

I like them all! Fantastic!
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Postby Whitefish » Sat May 06, 2006 9:41 pm

Roan's Lady wrote:
Bonus tracks? What for?


Well, for me a lot of them show where the song as we know it came from and how it developed. An example is the bonus track of "Tempus Fugit" (tracking session).

Another is "Some Are Born". We can hear how Yes did it and how it finalized on Song Of Seven. What a GREAT album which is all about good!


Just my thoughts.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Sun May 07, 2006 7:12 pm

Whitefish wrote:Well, for me a lot of them show where the song as we know it came from and how it developed. An example is the bonus track of "Tempus Fugit" (tracking session).

Another is "Some Are Born". We can hear how Yes did it and how it finalized on Song Of Seven. What a GREAT album which is all about good!


I know. Hearing how Yes "did it" is cool. But what is behind the inclusion of bonus tracks isn't purely to provide us with the inner workings of how their songs developed, but rather a way to make their product more marketable than it might be without them. I know that makes good business sense, but the opportunistic motivation of tacking on some decades-old sessions, in an attempt to have the die-hards drool and rush to purchase, does not sit well with me. Quit fartin' around with re-releases, compilations, and "bogus", uh, I mean "bonus" tracks, and give us something original - or pack it in!


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Postby Hed G. » Sun May 07, 2006 9:19 pm

Back to vinyl! I don't need the bonus tracks, and I don't want them.
If the development of the music is of interest, why not release a
compilation of outtakes and rehearsals? Leave the original musical
statements in their original context.
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Postby Whitefish » Mon May 08, 2006 4:17 am

I totally understand your points here regarding bonus trackc. But I think that the bonus tracks are cool.You can hear different versions of songs, and/of demos of them (which sometimes I like even better than the final version, but not always).


I miss vinyl too. I miss the large pictures and booklets such as those for Fragile and Yessongs. But CD's are great too.
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Postby Terry Shea » Mon May 08, 2006 11:34 pm

Roan's Lady wrote:I know. Hearing how Yes "did it" is cool. But what is behind the inclusion of bonus tracks isn't purely to provide us with the inner workings of how their songs developed, but rather a way to make their product more marketable than it might be without them. I know that makes good business sense, but the opportunistic motivation of tacking on some decades-old sessions, in an attempt to have the die-hards drool and rush to purchase, does not sit well with me. Quit fartin' around with re-releases, compilations, and "bogus", uh, I mean "bonus" tracks, and give us something original - or pack it in!



That seems a bit harsh Amy. I agree with you in that I'd like something original, but it's not like anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy the re-releases. The improved clarity on the cds is awsome and worth the price of the cds in and of itself, IMO. One would think that these cds would have commanded an outrageous pricetag what with the much improved soundscape and bonus tracks (not to mention informative liner notes, new Roger Dean artwork and band photos), but I don't believe I paid more than $10.99 for any of the Rhino Remasters and got at least one for as low as $8.49. This is less costly than either the original cds or the first set of remasters. Furthermore, they were released about 3 years ago while Magnification was still fairly fresh, so I really don't see how bashing the remasters now lends any credence to your argument for new material. In fact it seems irrelevant and appears like you just wanted to get a cheap shot in for some reason. I don't believe Yes is under contract to Rhino to produce new material, nor is Rhino under any contract to Yes for that matter, so once again, I don't understand what your argument is. I don't believe Rhino has anything to do with the band per se. Rhino should be commended for putting out an excellent product at a more than reasonable price, and they succeeded where Atlantic failed miserably in previous attempts in both the sound quality and the visual package.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Tue May 09, 2006 3:29 am

Terry Shea wrote:That seems a bit harsh Amy. I agree with you in that I'd like something original, but it's not like anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy the re-releases. The improved clarity on the cds is awsome and worth the price of the cds in and of itself, IMO. One would think that these cds would have commanded an outrageous pricetag what with the much improved soundscape and bonus tracks (not to mention informative liner notes, new Roger Dean artwork and band photos), but I don't believe I paid more than $10.99 for any of the Rhino Remasters and got at least one for as low as $8.49. This is less costly than either the original cds or the first set of remasters. Furthermore, they were released about 3 years ago while Magnification was still fairly fresh, so I really don't see how bashing the remasters now lends any credence to your argument for new material. In fact it seems irrelevant and appears like you just wanted to get a cheap shot in for some reason. I don't believe Yes is under contract to Rhino to produce new material, nor is Rhino under any contract to Yes for that matter, so once again, I don't understand what your argument is. I don't believe Rhino has anything to do with the band per se. Rhino should be commended for putting out an excellent product at a more than reasonable price, and they succeeded where Atlantic failed miserably in previous attempts in both the sound quality and the visual package.

I don't have an argument. I'm saying that bonus tracks on top of what I already own are not a draw for me. I'm saying that in light of the fact that Yes hasn't produced anything original in five years, it is no wonder that the bonus tracks and remasters are available right and left. I was happy enough getting a decent original album every two to three years, with no need to own five versions of "Close to the Edge" that include those that either "sound better" (that in itself is debatable) or demos, remixes, "studio jams", etc. Yes, I know - the fellas need to eat, after all - but I'm not interested in lining their pockets unless they're offering up something new. That's all I'm getting at, Terry.

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Postby Terry Shea » Tue May 09, 2006 11:31 am

Roan's Lady wrote:I don't have an argument. I'm saying that bonus tracks on top of what I already own are not a draw for me. I'm saying that in light of the fact that Yes hasn't produced anything original in five years, it is no wonder that the bonus tracks and remasters are available right and left. I was happy enough getting a decent original album every two to three years, with no need to own five versions of "Close to the Edge" that include those that either "sound better" (that in itself is debatable) or demos, remixes, "studio jams", etc. Yes, I know - the fellas need to eat, after all - but I'm not interested in lining their pockets unless they're offering up something new. That's all I'm getting at, Terry.


Amy, this is silly. Like I said, no one is forcing you to buy them. These same titles have been in the cd bins for years but now they've been replaced by a much improved product at a much lower cost! It's a win-win situation for the consumers, and I don't believe the boys in the band had anything to do with Rhino's project. They simply bought a license and went at it from what I understand. If anything this has brought new fans into the Yes camp.

I'd like some new material from Yes as much as you, but blaming the lack of new material on a 3 year old project that was out of the hands of the bandmembers and which greatly upgraded the older material is mind-boggling.
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Postby Roan's Lady » Tue May 09, 2006 8:37 pm

Terry Shea wrote:Amy, this is silly. Like I said, no one is forcing you to buy them. These same titles have been in the cd bins for years but now they've been replaced by a much improved product at a much lower cost! It's a win-win situation for the consumers, and I don't believe the boys in the band had anything to do with Rhino's project. They simply bought a license and went at it from what I understand. If anything this has brought new fans into the Yes camp.

I'd like some new material from Yes as much as you, but blaming the lack of new material on a 3 year old project that was out of the hands of the bandmembers and which greatly upgraded the older material is mind-boggling.


Terry. Of course no one is forcing me to buy them - I'd expect I'd have bought all of them if someone were.
I don't know where you got the idea that I am "blaming" their lack of new material on something that in your opinion resulted in a great upgrade of their older work. I think that their lack of new material is due to either a creative well that has dried up or the disinterest of the members of the band to put out anything new - or pehaps a combination of both. But this is another subject altogether, don't you think?
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Postby Genevive » Tue May 09, 2006 9:53 pm

Gary wrote:Recently replaced missing and imperfect CDs with new ones. Many of my old favorites now come with 5 or 6 added or bonus tracks. Many of these tracks are just different versions of the prviously released song or a rehearsal studio version.

How do you all feel about theses added tracks?

On the albums that I feel were perfect, such as CTTE, TYA, Relayer, Tales, Fragile, etc., I'm not a fan of them. On less important albums (IMO) I don't care. I like keeping the integrity of the classics.

For those who are interested, they make a great addition to a collection. But I have to ask- after two fairly recent boxed sets, why didn't more of this material that is being tacked onto existing albums come out in the sets? Isn't this what boxed sets are for? I'm with Roan in that I don't feel compelled to buy the same album over and over again (there's still plenty of albums by all kinds of artists that I don't own and would like to), and nor am I interested in buying boxed sets with a bunch of songs I already own several times on their original albums and live albums.

Bottom line is I am all for bonus tracks, etc, but feel they would be better served in a different context.
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Postby Terry Shea » Thu May 11, 2006 2:05 pm

Roan's Lady wrote:Terry. Of course no one is forcing me to buy them - I'd expect I'd have bought all of them if someone were.
I don't know where you got the idea that I am "blaming" their lack of new material on something that in your opinion resulted in a great upgrade of their older work. I think that their lack of new material is due to either a creative well that has dried up or the disinterest of the members of the band to put out anything new - or pehaps a combination of both. But this is another subject altogether, don't you think?
I agree that should be a different subject, but I'm not the one who brought it up. I got the idea that you were blaming (at least in part) their lack of new material on the Rhino remasters from you with this statement:

"Quit fartin' around with re-releases, compilations, and "bogus", uh, I mean "bonus" tracks, and give us something original - or pack it in!"

Yeah, I think that's pretty harsh and misguided. The remasters with the bonus tracks have nothing to do with Yes lack of new material the past few years, and the band had nothing to do with Rhino's project. Rhino has done the same thing with many bands. Do you really want Yes to "pack it in"? And why would you desire to deprive the rest of us who enjoy the bonus tracks and the much improved quality of sound on these recordings from having the opportunity to purchase them, especially at such a low cost?
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Postby Roan's Lady » Thu May 11, 2006 9:35 pm

Terry Shea wrote:I got the idea that you were blaming (at least in part) their lack of new material on the Rhino remasters from you with this statement:

"Quit fartin' around with re-releases, compilations, and "bogus", uh, I mean "bonus" tracks, and give us something original - or pack it in!"


Oh. Well, I wasn't, as I'd like to assume you figured out by reading my comments in my last post re. their current lack of creativity and/or drive.

Terry Shea wrote:Yeah, I think that's pretty harsh and misguided. The remasters with the bonus tracks have nothing to do with Yes lack of new material the past few years...


Sigh. Yes. As I mentioned previously, I never said the remasters had anything to do with their lack of new material.

Terry Shea wrote:Rhino has done the same thing with many bands. Do you really want Yes to "pack it in"?


Sure, if they have no plans to collaborate on new material, why in heaven's name should they stay together? In effect, they are not together right now. Yes as a band is stagnating - that's a fact, plain and simple. If they reformed to tour, that would be ok, and much better if they added some less "popular" songs to their setlist. But I'm tired of waiting for something new from them. To me, they are as good as finished, unless a new album happens. If you think that's harsh, oh well.

Terry Shea wrote:And why would you desire to deprive the rest of us who enjoy the bonus tracks and the much improved quality of sound on these recordings from having the opportunity to purchase them, especially at such a low cost?

Why? Because I'm just plain mean, that's why. LOL. :p
Terry, saying I want Yes to create new product and stop with the re-issues, compilations, bonus tracks ad nauseum does not reflect any desire I have to "deprive" anyone. It's just how I feel about the matter. Plus I'm not convinced that the "rest of" the readers here share the same opinions that you do. ;)
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Postby Terry Shea » Fri May 19, 2006 3:15 pm

[quote="Roan's Lady"]Oh. Well, I wasn't, as I'd like to assume you figured out by reading my comments in my last post re. their current lack of creativity and/or drive.



Sigh. Yes. As I mentioned previously, I never said the remasters had anything to do with their lack of new material.



Sure, if they have no plans to collaborate on new material, why in heaven's name should they stay together? In effect, they are not together right now. Yes as a band is stagnating - that's a fact, plain and simple. If they reformed to tour, that would be ok, and much better if they added some less "popular" songs to their setlist. But I'm tired of waiting for something new from them. To me, they are as good as finished, unless a new album happens. If you think that's harsh, oh well.


Why? Because I'm just plain mean, that's why. LOL. :p
Terry, saying I want Yes to create new product and stop with the re-issues, compilations, bonus tracks ad nauseum does not reflect any desire I have to "deprive" anyone. It's just how I feel about the matter. Plus I'm not convinced that the "rest of" the readers here share the same opinions that you do. ]
The point is, based on your comments above, if you had your way Yes would be forced to "pack it in" and there would have been no remasters w/ bonus tracks. Many of us enjoy the remasters, including the bonus tracks and many of us still enjoy seeing Yes perform live, even if they don't introduce new material into the set list (although the last few tours have produced live material never before performed and they always change the setlist from tour to tour). So if you had your way you'd be depriving a lot of us of such opportunities and I don't see any sense in doing that or in voicing such an opinion. It's counter-productive and seems rather egotistical and dictatorial in nature. If you don't want to see Yes perform live because you've seen and heard all the songs on the setlist before then don't go, but don't deprive or desire to deprive the rest of us the opportunity to do so. Same goes for the remasters. If the band starts seeing a lot negative comments such as this, they may decide to pack it in. Would that satisfy your ego knowing you helped to break up the band we all love, and deprived the rest of us the opportunity to ever hear them perform again?

I just can't understand why anyone would criticize the remasters. The sound has been greatly improved, they've included bonus tracks previously unreleased, they've given us new artwork and photos and they've given us a lot more information about the band and the recordings in the liner notes. They've done all this and then they took it one step further and substantially lowered the cost of these recordings compared to the original CDs. Rhino should be commended for their effort! Great job Rhino!
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Postby Roan's Lady » Fri May 19, 2006 10:39 pm

Terry Shea wrote:The point is, based on your comments above, if you had your way Yes would be forced to "pack it in" and there would have been no remasters w/ bonus tracks. Many of us enjoy the remasters, including the bonus tracks and many of us still enjoy seeing Yes perform live, even if they don't introduce new material into the set list (although the last few tours have produced live material never before performed and they always change the setlist from tour to tour). So if you had your way you'd be depriving a lot of us of such opportunities and I don't see any sense in doing that or in voicing such an opinion.

Gosh, if you don't see any sense in voicing an opinion (unless it matches yours, I guess), you're living in the wrong country, Brother. :rolleyes:

Terry Shea wrote:It's counter-productive and seems rather egotistical and dictatorial in nature.


Well, considering the source, you shouldn't be surprised. ]If you don't want to see Yes perform live because you've seen and heard all the songs on the setlist before then don't go, [/quote]
I never said I didn't want to see Yes perform live.

Terry Shea wrote:but don't deprive or desire to deprive the rest of us the opportunity to do so.

Yes, I keep forgetting that I'm doing that - thanks for reminding me!

Note to self: Stop depriving or desiring to deprive other people of seeing Yes in concert.

Terry Shea wrote: If the band starts seeing a lot negative comments such as this, they may decide to pack it in.

I somehow doubt that Yes would pack it in based on my comments and/or the minority of others who feel as I do, and, even rarer, have the tendency to express them out here. I mean, I've got power, as is evidently obvious to you, Terry, but not that much power. ]Would that satisfy your ego knowing you helped to break up the band we all love, and deprived the rest of us the opportunity to ever hear them perform again? [/quote]
Why yes, Terry - now that you mention it - helping to break up Yes would satisfy my ego, as well as serve to confirm my aforementioned power.

Terry Shea wrote: I just can't understand why anyone would criticize the remasters.

The sound has been greatly improved, they've included bonus tracks previously unreleased, they've given us new artwork and photos and they've given us a lot more information about the band and the recordings in the liner notes. They've done all this and then they took it one step further and substantially lowered the cost of these recordings compared to the original CDs. Rhino should be commended for their effort! Great job Rhino!

Yes, great job, Rhino! Why, I'll bet the CEO of Rhino is reading this as I type!


You'd be a great beer buddy, Terry.



:rolleyes: and might I add... :rolleyes:
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Postby KaRoLuS » Thu May 25, 2006 1:56 pm

Umm... I just wanted to say something. I'm both for and against in this argument, kind of.
I see the importance of bonus tracks... actually, I see the value of bonus tracks. You can see the context of the recordings, studio experimentations, etc. They also make the loose ends of the band's material more coherant, especially when it comes to unreleased tracks and single edits. In that respect, I'm all for bonus tracks.
However, I believe in the significance of the album. Not necessarily the CD. You may not have realised the difference. The CD isn't the album - in this case, the CD consists of the album and a number of bonus tracks. The bonus tracks aren't the album. And they should never be. Otherwise, it diminishes the role of the album. It would not be reasonable to tack Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever to the end of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, given the grandeur of the Day in the Life finale. Neither would it be reasonable to tack The Ballad of John and Yoko and Old Brown Shoe onto the end of Abbey Road, given the ambitious The End acted as a splendid finale (even if Her Majesty ruined it somewhat). Or, for that matter, all those unreleased takes from Anthology, it would be "sacreligious" to tack them on to the end of their respective contemporary albums. It would utterly destroy the coherancy of the albums.
But why is it okay for Wings? And Paul McCartney's solo material? A band like Yes? You want to listen to a splendid album. Not a stream of unrelated or redundant songs/ditties/cacophonies.
The project Rhino Records undertook to reissue the Yes catalogue was indeed ambitious. But it, as I believe any other CD, would benefit from including not just bonus tracks, but a bonus disc. Each CD including a separate disc for deuterocanonical music which gives you those essential rarities, while retaining the album in its original form.
Not that it helps now, but it was just an idea. No need to lampoon the albums of Yes, the second greatest band of all time, by adding other minor entities to them.
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Postby Tomfoolery » Thu May 25, 2006 9:23 pm

The SECOND greatest???? :confused:
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Bonus is not good

Postby aitomies » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:21 pm

Well I'm a bit reluctant to shell out the third time (vinyl, CD, re-master) for the Yes oevre, but when I do, it is for better sound quality, not for bonus tracks. When I listen to [insert album name of choice] it's all build-up to that deep silence at the end - best on vinyl with the rasp, rasp, rasp of the needle going futilely round and round - and I do not want the moment polluted by the start of an additional song that was'nt good enough to be released first time. It's isn't exactly like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa, but I think the canonical works should have their integrity retained, and off-cuts for the completists should be on a seperate disc.
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