Yes - a rash of bad, bad decisions

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psychopomp95
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Yes - a rash of bad, bad decisions

Post: # 4152Post psychopomp95
Tue May 04, 2004 4:02 pm

I have to figure that Yes is either one of the most unlucky, or clueless, rock bands to have walked this earth! I'm probably not going to get on every one's good side with this, and I don't feel like going into all the past decisions and choices they've made, but I will stick to a summary of the past three years (since Magnification) to prove my point.

First, the band delayed the release of Magnification in North America, even though it was out in Europe three months before it came out here.... what was the POINT of this?? The record company, Beyond (burn in hell you inept label! <img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle>), made excuses like "we're going to do a big promo push at Christmas", but did anyone believe it? Nah. And sure enough, the album dropped off the face of the earth. Now there's no need for comments about the album being crap (which I strongly disagree with anyway), because bad albums sell all the time, just look at the charts! <img src=pix/silly.gif border=0 align=middle> All it takes is good promo, and Yes was sure left out in the cold there. Add the delayed release to the fact that when it DID come out, they had the three Masterworks tracks on seperate discs... moneymaking, pure and simple. I'm ashamed at the band for figuring this would work. And if it was "the record company's idea", then the band clearly had no backbone about it.

Now, flash forward to Rick rejoining... this was probably one of the only smart things to have been done in the past two years! The other recent high point was "The Ultimate Yes" being in the UK Top 10 last autumn, which is pretty cool for the guys. Notice, though: no ploys or fancy tricks, or 'bonus tracks' to lure the fans into buying more stuff they already have - just solid marketing on radio and TV, and a fairly concise double-CD set. Simplicity triumphs again!
However, the problems started again with this most recent tour (I'm not speaking on a musical level, btw - I haven't yet heard any performances from this tour, and the consensus is that the band sounds good anyway). First, Yes on Kilborne, exposure or not, was a BAD idea. Yes doesn't fit late-night TV talk shows, and even if they did, they played "Roundabout" sloppily. Most non-fans who saw that probably thought "geez, those guys are washed up." My mom thought it was REALLY weak, and I had to agree with her... if anything, they should've played "South Side of the Sky" and just trimmed a bit of the intro and bridge, and cut down on the jam at the end. That song has a 'cool factor' which definitely goes beyond prog! It just SOUNDS neat. Yes has lots of songs like this, but most of them are too long for TV.
Regardless, that was done with and probably not TOO many people saw it anyway (and if they did, they probably weren't bothered to even notice the band)... I haven't heard the studio versions of those acoustic tracks on The Ultimate Yes, but all I can say is making a third CD was a bad idea: being a triple-disc set, the price of the compilation instantly went up, and it's way too high for a casual fan or even a neophyte who is interested in 'checking out' the group. The result? ONCE again, only the fairly big fans bought it! If Yes wants to get in touch with new listeners, they have to have their price set at a low enough level that people will take 'the plunge' and not worry about it denting their wallets. "Cheapo" compilations, basically, but for a change, one that is done RIGHT (we all know about those unlicensed comps of the OYE/Ladder-era stuff that are floating around everywhere by now). A double-disc set for $15 would've done, not triple-disc for $23!
Now, as far as the ACTUAL tour goes: if this was going to be Yes' big shot at re-establishing themselves as 'arena-worthy', WHY are they playing all of the material that only the fans want to hear?? Now, I am NOT knocking "Soon", "Every Little Thing", "Sweet Dreams", or any of the other somewhat obscure tunes - I like them! But the fact is, if Yes wants to 'showcase' themselves in the best way (and let's face it, they're playing arenas, they've sprung for a Roger Dean set - clearly they're taking a bit of a leap with this tour), they NEED to play all their best stuff! Where is "Close to the Edge", the DEFINITIVE Yes epic? Or "Heart of the Sunrise", with its' inimitable 'cool factor' (there's the phrase yet again)? There is something undeniably right about that song. And what about "Awaken"?? This is the ULTIMATE "prog-odyssey meant to be played in arenas" tune! Heck, even "Revealing Science of God", much as I think it's a bit of a sleeper tune, does indeed sound very cool and would work really well in arenas, especially with the background set. I don't think Roger Dean's trippy images fit quite so well with, say, "Rhythm of Love". <img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Looking at the setlists from this tour, Yes has done pretty well at covering most of the bases, I guess, but this probably wasn't the time for obscurities... heck, if they had to dig out a Rabin tune, they could've done something ELSE off of 90125, but I would imagine Steve wasn't too eager to dig even deeper than they already have into that era! <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Finally, YesSpeak... there's already a seperate topic for this, but WHY WHY WHY do a DVD which is ONLY a documentary? Doesn't Yes see a lot of their other contemporary 'classic' rock bands doing proper CONCERT DVDs, with the docu as a bonus (think Rush in Rio, among others)? Again, I haven't seen it, but a documentary is NOT what people want to see, especially knowing that all of that concert footage was filmed! And why do an audio-only segment?? All I can figure is that, yep, a concert will be released stand-alone at some point in the next little while, and yep, this was another cash-grab from a band that should be VERY grateful to have such loyal fans.
Now, let me emphasize, I'm not saying the band is cooking up these 'devilish schemes' - I'm SURE it's their management, but it tarnishes them all the same. And whether or not it's their idea, they DO know what's going on, so if nothing else, they tacitly approve of reaching into their fans' pockets when they have the chance... it's not so much that I blame them for that, but if they had better promo and management, it wouldn't even be necessary!! That's basically what I'm trying to say with this "epic" (ie. way too long <img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>) post... any thoughts to add to it?

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Post: # 68824Post Terry Shea
Tue May 04, 2004 8:01 pm

I agree 100% with nearly everything you've said. I think this setlist is the weakest I've ever seen. I also don't think the acoustic set is such a great idea. I'm going to tomorrow nights show and maybe that will change my opinion, but I can't believe that most fans are happy with many of the selections for this tour.

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Post: # 68827Post fragilesi
Tue May 04, 2004 8:23 pm

I kind of agree with most of this too - including that Magnification was a great album that deserved better.

The caveat that I would make is that the setlist is good for the loyal fans and does continue a trend of trying to freshen it up (eg South Side on the last tour). I would agree though that in the Arena setting space should have been made for at least Awaken or Close to the Edge. We can all decide what the "best" Arena tracks would be but one of these two should surely be there.

I'm sure that I personally will love it but, if you follow this line of reasoning "Owner" definitely ought to have been there plus one or two other YesWest tracks. I wouldn't mind seeing the band do a spin on something like "Changes" or possibly even "Final Eyes".

Effectively it does seem odd that we're getting a "loyal classic Yes fans" setlist on their first Arena tour for ages. It's a hard balance to strike and clearly they continually find it difficult. Personally I thought that it was a mistake to put the alternate mixes of classics like "And You And I" on Ultimate Yes. I think that this kind of thing should have been left to the remasters.

Simon.

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Post: # 68830Post dwelon
Tue May 04, 2004 9:36 pm

Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blabla, blah blah . Blah blah.

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Post: # 68833Post Dr_Yes
Wed May 05, 2004 12:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>dwelon wrote:</b>
Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blabla, blah blah . Blah blah.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Informed and useful - thanks.

Back on Planet Earth, I have to agree with you Trevor (much as it galls me <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>). A lot of what you say is so true. A Hall of Fame award for how NOT to run a rock and roll band.

You are very generous in pinning it all on their management, but I think if truth be known they are culpable too. For instance, back in 1979 with all the arguments raging over Jon and Rick (which as wel know culminated in the duo leaving soon after), Jon was accused of having spent more than his fair share of money - to support an excessive lifestyle. Management (i.e. Brian Lane/Mike Tait) suggested an easy solution in that the band add a few extra shows to the tour to compensate the aggrieved (Steve seemed to be at the root of this), but the idea was vetoed, Yes collapsed into a fit of Bugglemania and the rest was history.

Just another episode in the topsy-turvy world of Yes that could have been avoided if common sense was used.

And now here we are in 2004 and the band schedule, what, 18/19 dates in North America on a tour that's going to cost more than previous ones. Duh! And they plan to make it financially viable how exactly....

So yep, clueless seems appropriate to me.

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Post: # 68835Post Astral traveller
Wed May 05, 2004 1:51 am

<font color=black>From the 90s on, the band always seemed to make huge mistakes about their releases. The Normal studio-albums and the Rhino's aside, I think they messed up alot. I rather see a band release only 'necessary' releases, like Zeppelin and Floyd, and not all this bonus- disc/compilation/boxset stuff. Ofcourse these bands are bigger and/or it's out of Yes' hands.

adding to your examples,
- first there is Keys. Ofcourse that should have been a single-disc new album. It would shine out the new tracks a lot more. With the livetracks on a nice live-double CD. (I made them myself)
- In a word -- nice booklet, but why not release some cool box with rare and obscure things on it?

The setlist, mmh, don't know. It kinda looked OK to me. I don't think I'll have a chance to see them this tour, but there's is something to it. I mean they had the Masterworks tour, then Symphonic where they played a lot of epics and captured them on DVD. Time to move on. You can't play the same show over and over. I'm glad they shine some light on other albums, but they could have done a lot better with the YesWest choices.

</font id=black>

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Post: # 68841Post ariceffron
Wed May 05, 2004 4:19 am

ALL OF YOU GUYS WHO DONT LIKE THE SETLIST DONT UNDERSTAND YES. YOU REALLY DONT. YES HAVE FINALLY CAME 'FULL CIRCLE' ON THIS 35TH ANV. TOUR WITH THEIR REVISED SETLIST. I ALLWAYS KNEW THAT YES WOULD PLAY THESE SONGS AGAIN. BUT WHAT SUPRISED ME WAS THE GREAT ORDER OF THE SETLIST. I STILL AM AMAZED AT THE GOING FOR THE ONE --> SWEET DREAMS OPENER. ANYONE WHO CRITIZICES THIS TRULY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND YES. THIS IS MOST LIKELY DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHAT ERA ONE IS MOST FAMILAR WITH.

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Post: # 68843Post yeskat
Wed May 05, 2004 5:24 am

Yes have always seemed to run into poor management! Where do they find these guys, anyway? I think they need to hire whoever manages Rush! Or Pink Floyd, or how about the Stones? IMO Yes should be doing just as well as them, if not even better!

For one thing, what happened to all the promo once again promised for this 35th anniversary album, AND the concert? I only saw their album commercial TWICE. I have seen Cher's and some other performers' album commercials dozens of times! And as far as the concert promos go... I think we all know what a joke that is!

We will never really know what's going on behind the scenes. We don't know how much is management problems, or the band itself. As far as this concert's setlist goes; for the most part, I like it. Seeing it performed worked amazingly well. I DO agree that they should have included a few more well-known songs, but they only have so much time! I also LOVE the acoustic idea. I think they may have something interesting there. But if they don't get good promo behind it to pull in some new or long-lost fans, they may as well not even bother!<img src=pix/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Post: # 68844Post fragilesi
Wed May 05, 2004 5:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>ariceffron wrote:</b>
ALL OF YOU GUYS WHO DONT LIKE THE SETLIST DONT UNDERSTAND YES. YOU REALLY DONT. YES HAVE FINALLY CAME 'FULL CIRCLE' ON THIS 35TH ANV. TOUR WITH THEIR REVISED SETLIST. I ALLWAYS KNEW THAT YES WOULD PLAY THESE SONGS AGAIN. BUT WHAT SUPRISED ME WAS THE GREAT ORDER OF THE SETLIST. I STILL AM AMAZED AT THE GOING FOR THE ONE --> SWEET DREAMS OPENER. ANYONE WHO CRITIZICES THIS TRULY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND YES. THIS IS MOST LIKELY DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHAT ERA ONE IS MOST FAMILAR WITH.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I think that it's a fairly brave or possibly foolish person that would claim to "understand Yes" . . .

I love the setlist but have to agree that in purely commercial terms it is not the best for this showcase tour.

Simon.

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Post: # 68845Post yeskat
Wed May 05, 2004 5:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>ariceffron wrote:</b>
ALL OF YOU GUYS WHO DONT LIKE THE SETLIST DONT UNDERSTAND YES. YOU REALLY DONT. YES HAVE FINALLY CAME 'FULL CIRCLE' ON THIS 35TH ANV. TOUR WITH THEIR REVISED SETLIST. I ALLWAYS KNEW THAT YES WOULD PLAY THESE SONGS AGAIN. BUT WHAT SUPRISED ME WAS THE GREAT ORDER OF THE SETLIST. I STILL AM AMAZED AT THE GOING FOR THE ONE --> SWEET DREAMS OPENER. ANYONE WHO CRITIZICES THIS TRULY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND YES. THIS IS MOST LIKELY DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHAT ERA ONE IS MOST FAMILAR WITH.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>



I, for one, DO like the setlist. I thought I would never see some of these songs done live. Even though I wasn't real excited about this setlist, watching the band perform it LIVE was a whole different thing!

However, I wouldn't say that anyone who doesn't like it don't understand Yes. It's just a matter of opinion; that's all!<img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

So just chill, for now! Wait until Psycho actually SEES these songs done in concert; THEN let him express his opinions! You ARE going to the concert, aren't you, Psychopomp<img src=pix/icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Post: # 68856Post Megalodon
Wed May 05, 2004 9:37 am

Terry Shea, I know some of their masterpieces are missing on this
tour, but they are replaced with some great songs too. I left the
concert absolutely floored. They played the songs with so much fun
and energy. It was the best I have seen yes in a long time. Please
post your review of the show after seeing it for yourself, I am
curious to see what you will say then.<img src=pix/icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

I do agree with alot of what phsychopomp said, especially about
how they lack good promotion. I never see anything about Yes being
advertized anywhere.<img src=pix/icon_smile_disapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Post: # 68867Post N2yes
Wed May 05, 2004 12:27 pm

<font color=red><font face='Papyrus'>Sure, they made a few of what we would perceive as 'bad calls', but we know nothing of what's really going on behind the scenes. It may be that in today's market, they are simply trying to find a workable solution to regain the notoriety they so justly deserve. In the meantime, they have to make a living and I personally don't feel that I'm being milked while they revisit some of the older stuff. A new album will eventually grace our ears and I really believe that will be a showcase event, not that this tour isn't going to be.

To suggest they are simply going to repeat history is to say that Wakeman, the ever-wary caped wizard has signed on strictly for nostalgic purposes. I don't think with his solo successes, he would prefer to stand by a cause he feels is financially destined for the mesozoic era. Something's up and we need to be patient. The time will soon come.</font id='Papyrus'></font id=red><img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_yes2.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>"Master of images-Songs cast a light on you"

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Post: # 68869Post Jon Flanagan
Wed May 05, 2004 12:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>yeskat wrote:</b>
Yes have always seemed to run into poor management! Where do they find these guys, anyway? I think they need to hire whoever manages Rush! Or Pink Floyd, or how about the Stones? IMO Yes should be doing just as well as them, if not even better!

For one thing, what happened to all the promo once again promised for this 35th anniversary album, AND the concert? I only saw their album commercial TWICE. I have seen Cher's and some other performers' album commercials dozens of times! And as far as the concert promos go... I think we all know what a joke that is!

We will never really know what's going on behind the scenes. We don't know how much is management problems, or the band itself. As far as this concert's setlist goes; for the most part, I like it. Seeing it performed worked amazingly well. I DO agree that they should have included a few more well-known songs, but they only have so much time! I also LOVE the acoustic idea. I think they may have something interesting there. But if they don't get good promo behind it to pull in some new or long-lost fans, they may as well not even bother!<img src=pix/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>


This statement and others mentioned never cease to amaze me...where have you guys been? In the case of Rush, up until Test for Echo in 1996, they were making WAY better music than Yes in the last twenty years, and music that was accessable and not just virtuoistic noodling....they wrote songs and still displayed their amazing insturmental firepower in the context of highly listenable music. Pink Floyd, or at least the band that existed before Roger Waters left, had a much more universely adored musical legacy, with lyrics the people could decypher and music that was highly emotive; Dark side of the Moon alone has sold more albums than the entire Yes catalog...approaching 40 million copies...and it doesn't stop there. Blaming it all on management is such a cop out...Jon Anderson is so full of shit...he spent all his money and went heavily into debt. This illusion, especially with younger fans, that Yes were this multi-platinum juggernaut in the seventies is laughable...they were and are a cult band...always have been...and when the records started to suck, the pot went dry...and they started blaming each other.

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Post: # 68870Post yesireebob
Wed May 05, 2004 1:00 pm

The set list was wonderful, and a nice change from the set lists of Masterworks and the 2002 tour. They already did CTTE, RSOG, America, HOTS, etc. This set list shows they can reach back and play anything as well as they ever did, and is still capable of a few surprises. Like an acoustic set. I have a friend who expressed interest in Yes for the first time ever after hearing the acoustic version of Roundabout on the radio. I gave her a copy of the KLOS boot, and now she wants a CD. There are people who really prefer acoustic, more mellow music, and who do not associate Yes with that sort of music. If they only knew! Yes did get the very successful Billboard tribute issue, and have managed to become a little more visible. They have succeeded at least in reminding people of their existence. Could they have done more, and can it have been done better? Of course! But I really don't think Yes is ever going to break into major radio play or Rolling Stone features. Prog is alive and well -- but on XM radio, on the internet, on small labels. Even bands like Rush, although they manage to sell out concerts and get lots of air play on classic rock stations, do not do well with new material. When Vapor Trails came out, one station played a song from that album, just one. And not anymore, it's all the old stuff again. If Pink Floyd or Led Zepplin were to re-form, even they would probably not do well with new material. The Page/Plant tour fell flat. Magnification, no matter how well promoted, would not have been the next big thing. With most radio stations owned by either Clear Channel or Infinity Broadcasting, and with the clout Clear Channel can wield to punish bands who don't play at Clear Channel venues, it's a tough market for everyone, not just Yes. Lots of really great bands are barely managing to stay afloat. At least Yes already has a loyal fan base to build on. Of couse, that is a double-edged sword, because those loyal fans tend to get upset when they alter their sound to get radio-friendly! In any event, I think Yes deserves a lot of credit for continuing to release new material on a fairly consistent basis regardless of promotion or lack thereof. If they can't please everyone, I do think they are pleasing themselves at this point. If they are happy doing what they are doing and making enough money to continue doing it, perhaps that is the best we can hope for!

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Post: # 68878Post Stoutman
Wed May 05, 2004 2:17 pm

Of course they made a rash of bad decisions, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives . Out of all of the old guard progressive groups,they are still together. ELp , with all the antipathy betweeen Lake and Emerson may never reunite, Genesis was finished after Phil Collins left since most people couldnt tell the difference between 80`s genesis and Collins' solo work. David Gilmour has no interst in resuurecting Floyd. King Crimson is nothing more than the Robert Fripp band with a differnt lineup every album it seems. and I dont know where Jethro tull is at nowadays. So the fact reamins they are the lone standard bearers of the old guard progressive movement.
Theyhave had some crappy promotion; witness the talk album, which I thought was ahighly innovatibe and cutting edge album for them,but Victory did a poor job of promoting the albumnad if they did, it could have been as big as 90125.
Yes is never going to pull in a throng of new fans. Sure they will attract somenew ones, but they are mostly about their legacy nowadays, playing to the ones who always stuck by them.

Progressive rock will always be grass roots cult movement; it will never be as big as it was in the 70`s. Those days are gone. If anything, I think the internet, especailly this site has helped in the promotion of the longetivity of this band.
There were some crappy albums in the late 90`s(The ladder being one lone exception), but no matter how well their albums are promoted, i dont think it will make a difference. Most of the music buying public are not interested in music such as this, so it wouldnt even matter if theyd did a masterwork such as Relayer again.. Im more amazed at the fact that they are still going and that they are still able to play venues such as MSG when other bands from that era, save the Stones,are playing sheds and theaters.

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Post: # 68880Post Jon Flanagan
Wed May 05, 2004 3:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Stoutman wrote:</b>
Of course they made a rash of bad decisions, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives . Out of all of the old guard progressive groups,they are still together. ELp , with all the antipathy betweeen Lake and Emerson may never reunite, Genesis was finished after Phil Collins left since most people couldnt tell the difference between 80`s genesis and Collins' solo work. David Gilmour has no interst in resuurecting Floyd. King Crimson is nothing more than the Robert Fripp band with a differnt lineup every album it seems. and I dont know where Jethro tull is at nowadays. So the fact reamins they are the lone standard bearers of the old guard progressive movement.
Theyhave had some crappy promotion; witness the talk album, which I thought was ahighly innovatibe and cutting edge album for them,but Victory did a poor job of promoting the albumnad if they did, it could have been as big as 90125.
Yes is never going to pull in a throng of new fans. Sure they will attract somenew ones, but they are mostly about their legacy nowadays, playing to the ones who always stuck by them.

Progressive rock will always be grass roots cult movement; it will never be as big as it was in the 70`s. Those days are gone. If anything, I think the internet, especailly this site has helped in the promotion of the longetivity of this band.
There were some crappy albums in the late 90`s(The ladder being one lone exception), but no matter how well their albums are promoted, i dont think it will make a difference. Most of the music buying public are not interested in music such as this, so it wouldnt even matter if theyd did a masterwork such as Relayer again.. Im more amazed at the fact that they are still going and that they are still able to play venues such as MSG when other bands from that era, save the Stones,are playing sheds and theaters.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Very well said Chris! The reality of this tour is that they are playing to the same amount as they have for the last ten years...3,500 to maybe 8,000 per venue...the only difference this time around is that we have something to look at on stage, and unfortunately, a lot more empty seats; Where Yes got the idea they could do this business is beyond me. And you can't clutch at straws and blame Rhino, or their management or whomever...they got decent promotion: Ads in Billboard magazine of the tour, DVD and new collection..plus a whole issue devoted to them...a truncated screening of the DVD in Cinemas across the nation, and they even got coverage of the tour and new Collection in the most useless musak publication of them all...Rolling Stone. Yes have had a core of Fans since the mid-nineties that is approximately 35,000 to at best 60,000 fans, which also includes the brainwashed kids of these fans who probably were lullibyed to sleep hearing Gates of Delerium, and that number will not rise. I think it's remarkable a band like Yes still exists, and not only that, so willing to please their fans by touring and giving us unreleased music that is really not worthy of a public listen...they are one of the few bands that give a shit about their fans. And Terry, you might think you speak for the majority, but you don't come close...there are a lot of fans, including myself, that are very pleased with this setlist...and if you haven't been keeping score, many of the songs that some complained for being ommitted were played over the last two years...did it ever occur to the ungrateful that the band has simply tired of these songs? Yes, in this incarnation have always been a cult band that made some great albums that sold in the gold to platinum range, which was repectable for the time...what set them apart, and is still apparent to this day is their great live performances...they still sound good. The only blockbuster they ever had was 90125, when a guy named Rabin re-vived the band, and turned them, albeit briefly, a multi-platinum rock band...and a damn good one.

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Post: # 68883Post thesage
Wed May 05, 2004 4:44 pm

Well said Jon and Stoutman, as a huge ELP fan I can only lament at the appauling decisions taken by ELP over the years and the squabbles that have prevented them from having the longevity they deserve. Yes are still performing and producing good music. The Ladder and Magnification, whilst a few years old, had some classic moments- and I finally got to see Yes in Australia after 30 years!!!! so be thankful that yes are still here!

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OriginOfAllWays
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Post: # 68885Post OriginOfAllWays
Wed May 05, 2004 5:41 pm

<font size=3></font id=size3>blessed eternal moment every<img src=pix/icon_yes_talis.gif border=0 align=middle>ne~let us consider this,shall we?? the members of <img src=pix/icon_yes_yes.gif border=0 align=middle>are human beings as are we all,thus they have made mistakes "let he without sin..."<img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> in frith,luna

<hr>~BE DIVIDED TO THE LEAST~<img src=pix/icon_yes_mover.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Post: # 68890Post dwelon
Wed May 05, 2004 9:26 pm

I also enjoyed the setlist and was glad there was no other opening band.

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psychopomp95
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Post: # 68904Post psychopomp95
Thu May 06, 2004 4:55 am

Well, I kinda figured my 'writeup' would come across as a little harsh... if I was to sum up my viewpoint, it is that Yes is still working as a creative force and it's a little maddening that they haven't been able to make better of their opportunities! I certainly don't expect them to be as big as the Stones, or even Rush (well, maybe close in that aspect), but they should still be able to play to arenas that are mostly full, rather than mostly empty.
In any case, most of my criticisms were directed at the METHODS used to promote the band. Sure, some of them are good for a little 'exposure', but having a Billboard issue dedicated to them, while a neat novelty, isn't actually going to draw many people in from the outside, so to speak... 95% of the people who bought that issue, as with the other promo tactics the band uses, are probably already hardcore fans. It doesn't get OTHER peoples' attention!
Now, don't get me wrong, I think the relationship between Yes and its' fanbase is VERY strong, and as I said, Yes should consider themselves extremely lucky for that. I just feel like they take advantage of people's goodwill with some of the marketing and promotional things they do... they cash in on their existing fans rather than take chances to draw in new ones. And heck, we've seen how there are quite a few 'young people' who get into Yes purely via word of mouth, or hearing their parents playing the music, stuff like that... can you imagine how many more might get into the band if they actually had some better promotional tricks in the conventional sense? <img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

As for the setlist - as a fan I'm certainly not complaining, I think it's great that they're playing so many obscurities! But if this tour is designed to get them somewhat back into the spotlight (and it IS, let's face it), then there's no way they should be leaving out so many definitive tunes (and in the case of the two shorter ones, two with the most 'mainstream' appeal): CTTE, HOTS, RSOG, Awaken, or Starship Trooper. They should be playing at least two of these in their sleep! <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> No doubt they could by now!
And no, I won't be seeing this tour. The closest it came to me was Seattle, which is still 3 1/2 hours and a VERY expensive concert ticket away, not to mention hotel costs... I'll surely buy a DVD of the tour, though!

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Post: # 68915Post Independently Whole
Thu May 06, 2004 11:46 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Stoutman wrote:</b>
Out of all of the old guard progressive groups,they are still together... King Crimson is nothing more than the Robert Fripp band with a differnt lineup every album it seems.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Actually this seems more true of KC's early years than recent times. In my opinion KC has created some excellent music over the last 10 years.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If anything, I think the internet, especailly this site has helped in the promotion of the longetivity of this band.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I couldn't agree more. The internet makes it easier for existing fans to keep up with what's going on with the band even in the absence of promotion, and gives potential new fans (of any band, not just Yes) a way other than the radio to get exposure to music they haven't heard before.

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Post: # 68921Post EDJ1845
Thu May 06, 2004 2:04 pm

Hi. First time here. Ya know , we (including me ) all bitch & complain when our favorite bands keep playing the same songs over & over & over & over & over & over in concert, yet when they play more obscure stuff so many of you so called die hards "complain". I don't get it. Yes they( like all bands ) always should throw in some obvious songs , but so often they go overboard. At this point in time a band like YES should first & foremost , cater to the loyal die hards (who have seen & heard them many, many times) who fill most of the shows anyhow. Go ahead, plaY SOMETHING DIFFERANT OR OBSCURE. PEACE

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Post: # 68929Post yeskat
Thu May 06, 2004 3:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Jon Flanagan wrote:</b>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>yeskat wrote:</b>
Yes have always seemed to run into poor management! Where do they find these guys, anyway? I think they need to hire whoever manages Rush! Or Pink Floyd, or how about the Stones? IMO Yes should be doing just as well as them, if not even better!

For one thing, what happened to all the promo once again promised for this 35th anniversary album, AND the concert? I only saw their album commercial TWICE. I have seen Cher's and some other performers' album commercials dozens of times! And as far as the concert promos go... I think we all know what a joke that is!

We will never really know what's going on behind the scenes. We don't know how much is management problems, or the band itself. As far as this concert's setlist goes; for the most part, I like it. Seeing it performed worked amazingly well. I DO agree that they should have included a few more well-known songs, but they only have so much time! I also LOVE the acoustic idea. I think they may have something interesting there. But if they don't get good promo behind it to pull in some new or long-lost fans, they may as well not even bother!<img src=pix/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>


This statement and others mentioned never cease to amaze me...where have you guys been? In the case of Rush, up until Test for Echo in 1996, they were making WAY better music than Yes in the last twenty years, and music that was accessable and not just virtuoistic noodling....they wrote songs and still displayed their amazing insturmental firepower in the context of highly listenable music. Pink Floyd, or at least the band that existed before Roger Waters left, had a much more universely adored musical legacy, with lyrics the people could decypher and music that was highly emotive; Dark side of the Moon alone has sold more albums than the entire Yes catalog...approaching 40 million copies...and it doesn't stop there. Blaming it all on management is such a cop out...Jon Anderson is so full of shit...he spent all his money and went heavily into debt. This illusion, especially with younger fans, that Yes were this multi-platinum juggernaut in the seventies is laughable...they were and are a cult band...always have been...and when the records started to suck, the pot went dry...and they started blaming each other.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Whether you think Rush was making "WAY better music" than Yes is a matter of opinion. I am a Rush and Floyd fan myself. I wouldn't say their music is better, just different. I know that Floyd has far outsold Yes in albums. And I don't blame EVERYTHING on Yes' management. I know that there are other negative factors involved, including the band members themselves. And no, maybe they weren't necessarily a "multi-platinum juggernaut" band; but when you outsell Led Zepelin in concert tickets, playing concerts to 100,000 in stadiums like the JFK stadium, you're not doing all that bad either! Would you still consider that a "cult group"?<img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Maybe where you live you've noticed more promotion of the current tour. I haven't seen anything beyond what you have mentioned besides just a couple of commercials, and that just doesn't cut it. You need regularly played t.v. and radio commercials. I've seen it done for other performers. While we were in Vegas and spoke to some locals there, none of them were even aware that Yes was doing a concert that evening. And one of them was a huge Yes fan who thanked us for telling him. He was planning to buy himself a ticket, which he wouldn't have done if we hadn't told him about the concert. It's kind of sad when a band is playing in a well-known arena, and the local people there aren't even aware of it. What kind of promotion is that when it is all dependant on word of mouth? And it's been that way for every concert they have done in our area since the 90's.<img src=pix/icon_smile_angry2.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> Frankly, it really pisses me off!

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