Okay, so i'm sure compared to a lot of people on this board, i'm a newbie to the progressive rock scene...Yes is far and away my favorite band ever, I'm pretty into King Crimson now, and I just picked up ELP's very best of cd...it's good, but doesn't compare to either Yes or KC...but to my point:
The song From The Beginning, I can't believe ELP got away with the intro...Recorded in 1972, this is a BLATANT ripoff of Howe's intro on Roundabout...I mean, it even starts with the harmonics on 12 and plays a very similar classical-sounding pattern...does anyone else agree with me on this?
Hmm, i bet this conversation was played out 25 years ago...but like I said, I just got into prog this year, so take it easy on me!
-ryan
<hr>www.thisistheend.org
ELP's 'from the beginning' and Roundabout
my bad, everyone...i thought i was posting this on yestalk, not concert talk...again, sorry about that
-ryan
<hr>www.thisistheend.org
-ryan
<hr>www.thisistheend.org
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Greenglade
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>animeska1 wrote:</b>
Hmm, i bet this conversation was played out 25 years ago...but like I said, I just got into prog this year, so take it easy on me!
-ryan
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Hi Ryan! You just as well could've quoted the opening lyrics from the ELP song "From the Beginning" in this last part of your entry: <i>"There might have been things I missed, but don't be unkind..."</i> <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Although these two intro's may sound alike - for about ten second or so - they actually differ quite a lot! The keys ("Roundabout" is in E and "From the beginning" is in A. That explains the harmonics on 12!), the chord structures as well as the rythm patterns are far apart. And I'm not sure I agree with Greenglade on the Lake-Bach connection either... Isn't Howe more of a Bach freak anyway?
YES released their "Fragile" album a few months before ELP's "Trilogy" and therefore one could suspect some influence? But I'm sure that YES was aware of and influenced by ELP too!
<b>animeska1 wrote:</b>
Hmm, i bet this conversation was played out 25 years ago...but like I said, I just got into prog this year, so take it easy on me!
-ryan
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Hi Ryan! You just as well could've quoted the opening lyrics from the ELP song "From the Beginning" in this last part of your entry: <i>"There might have been things I missed, but don't be unkind..."</i> <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Although these two intro's may sound alike - for about ten second or so - they actually differ quite a lot! The keys ("Roundabout" is in E and "From the beginning" is in A. That explains the harmonics on 12!), the chord structures as well as the rythm patterns are far apart. And I'm not sure I agree with Greenglade on the Lake-Bach connection either... Isn't Howe more of a Bach freak anyway?
YES released their "Fragile" album a few months before ELP's "Trilogy" and therefore one could suspect some influence? But I'm sure that YES was aware of and influenced by ELP too!
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stevehoweistheMAN
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i think because both records were released so close together it's complete coincidence. Both bands were riding high and weren't concerned with what other bands were up to.
and i think i've heard a santana song with the same harmonics....(but as it was on the radio, and most dj's today are stupid and don't tell you the songs, it could've been FTB, and i didn't know because it has a Santanish vibe and I wasn't into ELP yet...)
i've only in the past 3 or 4 months been getting into other prog, Ryan. i've always been scared if i bought other prog i would like it more than yes. but i've realised no prog band comes close to yes for me so it's great. i've been buying muchos ELP, Crimson, and 70's Rush stuff, and out of all of them, ELP does it for me the best. I think Emerson is a god and Trilogy is an amazing record. But what got me into them was when the keyboard player in my band (an Emerson and Wakeman not, whuda thunk?) brought a video of them live. They do stuff from their first record, and I couldn't beLIEVE it when they broke into Mussugorsky's Pictures At An Exhibition! That will change your mind about them a lot, and prolly put them above Crimson. But you have to find theis VHS/DVD, "Pictures at an Exhibition". BTW, get Rush's "Hemispheres". Listened to it yesterday for the first time. WHEW! (Sorry, off topic)...
<hr>There's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Howe!
and i think i've heard a santana song with the same harmonics....(but as it was on the radio, and most dj's today are stupid and don't tell you the songs, it could've been FTB, and i didn't know because it has a Santanish vibe and I wasn't into ELP yet...)
i've only in the past 3 or 4 months been getting into other prog, Ryan. i've always been scared if i bought other prog i would like it more than yes. but i've realised no prog band comes close to yes for me so it's great. i've been buying muchos ELP, Crimson, and 70's Rush stuff, and out of all of them, ELP does it for me the best. I think Emerson is a god and Trilogy is an amazing record. But what got me into them was when the keyboard player in my band (an Emerson and Wakeman not, whuda thunk?) brought a video of them live. They do stuff from their first record, and I couldn't beLIEVE it when they broke into Mussugorsky's Pictures At An Exhibition! That will change your mind about them a lot, and prolly put them above Crimson. But you have to find theis VHS/DVD, "Pictures at an Exhibition". BTW, get Rush's "Hemispheres". Listened to it yesterday for the first time. WHEW! (Sorry, off topic)...
<hr>There's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Howe!
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Terry Shea
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>stevehoweistheMAN wrote:</b>
i think because both records were released so close together it's complete coincidence. Both bands were riding high and weren't concerned with what other bands were up to.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Maybe not such a coincidence! Both bands were using Advision studios and both bands were using Eddie Offord as their producer/engineer. Same studio, same record company, same producer. I believe both bands were in the studio at the same time for at least part of their recordings. I think they had toured together prior to or shortly these recordings. They may have been sharing ideas or Eddie may have had some influence on the intros. There was a certain closeness between these 2 bands, so I seriously doubt that either band was "stealing" ideas from the other.
Could you imagine Steve Howe playing with ELP (that would make it HELP wouldn't it)? Come to think of it Peter Banks said he was offered Greg Lake's position before Greg was.
<hr>Listen to my music by clicking on one of these links:
http://www.ampcast.com/terry_shea
http://www.ic-musicmedia.com/terryshea
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?so ... 268&T=3529
http://www.clearchannelnewmusicnetwork. ... /terryshea
<b>stevehoweistheMAN wrote:</b>
i think because both records were released so close together it's complete coincidence. Both bands were riding high and weren't concerned with what other bands were up to.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Maybe not such a coincidence! Both bands were using Advision studios and both bands were using Eddie Offord as their producer/engineer. Same studio, same record company, same producer. I believe both bands were in the studio at the same time for at least part of their recordings. I think they had toured together prior to or shortly these recordings. They may have been sharing ideas or Eddie may have had some influence on the intros. There was a certain closeness between these 2 bands, so I seriously doubt that either band was "stealing" ideas from the other.
Could you imagine Steve Howe playing with ELP (that would make it HELP wouldn't it)? Come to think of it Peter Banks said he was offered Greg Lake's position before Greg was.
<hr>Listen to my music by clicking on one of these links:
http://www.ampcast.com/terry_shea
http://www.ic-musicmedia.com/terryshea
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?so ... 268&T=3529
http://www.clearchannelnewmusicnetwork. ... /terryshea
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stevehoweistheMAN
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Terry Shea wrote:</b>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>stevehoweistheMAN wrote:</b>
i think because both records were released so close together it's complete coincidence. Both bands were riding high and weren't concerned with what other bands were up to.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Maybe not such a coincidence! Both bands were using Advision studios and both bands were using Eddie Offord as their producer/engineer. Same studio, same record company, same producer. I believe both bands were in the studio at the same time for at least part of their recordings. I think they had toured together prior to or shortly these recordings. They may have been sharing ideas or Eddie may have had some influence on the intros. There was a certain closeness between these 2 bands, so I seriously doubt that either band was "stealing" ideas from the other.
Could you imagine Steve Howe playing with ELP (that would make it HELP wouldn't it)? Come to think of it Peter Banks said he was offered Greg Lake's position before Greg was.
<hr>Listen to my music by clicking on one of these links:
http://www.ampcast.com/terry_shea
http://www.ic-musicmedia.com/terryshea
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?so ... 268&T=3529
http://www.clearchannelnewmusicnetwork. ... /terryshea
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
excellent points Terry! i just noticed yesterday while listening to my Trilogy LP that Eddie produced it. I've known he has before, but I was just going, "Oh yeaaaah. Cool!" i actually think a 1974 Relayer Steve Howe could fill in very well into an ELP mix. Hard an dissonant, and melodic and quiet.
<hr>There's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Howe!
<b>Terry Shea wrote:</b>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>stevehoweistheMAN wrote:</b>
i think because both records were released so close together it's complete coincidence. Both bands were riding high and weren't concerned with what other bands were up to.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Maybe not such a coincidence! Both bands were using Advision studios and both bands were using Eddie Offord as their producer/engineer. Same studio, same record company, same producer. I believe both bands were in the studio at the same time for at least part of their recordings. I think they had toured together prior to or shortly these recordings. They may have been sharing ideas or Eddie may have had some influence on the intros. There was a certain closeness between these 2 bands, so I seriously doubt that either band was "stealing" ideas from the other.
Could you imagine Steve Howe playing with ELP (that would make it HELP wouldn't it)? Come to think of it Peter Banks said he was offered Greg Lake's position before Greg was.
<hr>Listen to my music by clicking on one of these links:
http://www.ampcast.com/terry_shea
http://www.ic-musicmedia.com/terryshea
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?so ... 268&T=3529
http://www.clearchannelnewmusicnetwork. ... /terryshea
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
excellent points Terry! i just noticed yesterday while listening to my Trilogy LP that Eddie produced it. I've known he has before, but I was just going, "Oh yeaaaah. Cool!" i actually think a 1974 Relayer Steve Howe could fill in very well into an ELP mix. Hard an dissonant, and melodic and quiet.
<hr>There's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Howe!
finally people are replying to my post! i thought people must have read it and discarded it as an idiotic post...thanks for all the feed back, i've actually learned some stuff and have some new questions
SteveHoweistheman (can't remember your name, sorry), what's your band called? do you guys have a website and do you play out a lot? perhaps our bands could trade shows this summer? check out www.purevolume.com/thisistheend or thisistheend.org to listen to us, though all of our available mp3s were written before i got into prog, and lemme tell you our newer songs are much more yes and crimson influenced ;)
does anyone know if eddie offord is still in the game producing? i know he did 311's first two, and quite noteably their best and most solid recordings "Music" and "Grassroots," but those are the most modern cd's i can find of his...any help?
-ryan
<hr>www.thisistheend.org
SteveHoweistheman (can't remember your name, sorry), what's your band called? do you guys have a website and do you play out a lot? perhaps our bands could trade shows this summer? check out www.purevolume.com/thisistheend or thisistheend.org to listen to us, though all of our available mp3s were written before i got into prog, and lemme tell you our newer songs are much more yes and crimson influenced ;)
does anyone know if eddie offord is still in the game producing? i know he did 311's first two, and quite noteably their best and most solid recordings "Music" and "Grassroots," but those are the most modern cd's i can find of his...any help?
-ryan
<hr>www.thisistheend.org
-
stevehoweistheMAN
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nice, named after the ancient lyric perhaps? i think that's the song anyways
my email is animeska1@aol.com
-ryan
my email is animeska1@aol.com
-ryan
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Greenglade
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<b><font color=purple>Yes, the beginning fingerpicked arpeggios after the harmonics and little glissando stuff is very similar the Bach's Lute Prelude.
I've had the Pictures at and Exhibition DVD for a month or two now. Hot 70's keyboard prog. Let's not forget Mussorsky. Do you know the classical world critisized it very negatively when it came out?
The UK government almost banned "Jerusalem" because it was like the British national anthem.</b></font id=purple><img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
I've had the Pictures at and Exhibition DVD for a month or two now. Hot 70's keyboard prog. Let's not forget Mussorsky. Do you know the classical world critisized it very negatively when it came out?
The UK government almost banned "Jerusalem" because it was like the British national anthem.</b></font id=purple><img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
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JeffMasonFL
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Re: ELP's 'from the beginning' and Roundabout
The group Wondermints has a song called "In And Around Greg Lake" on their "Bali" album from 1998.