The Big Generator

fragilesi · Post: # 32889Post **fragilesi** Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:34 pm

Bob,

Not at all, you just have a different taste to most of them I guess . . .

Simon.

tomas · Post: # 32979Post **tomas** Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:49 am

even though i've been a fan since the 70s and especially love 70s yes like tales gfto and relayer, i think Big Generator and 90125 are great Yes albums (never really dug Talk or Union though). I prefer these albums to anything theyve put out since. one aspect is the recording of Jons voice - strong powerful and clean - and the general power of the music. these albums are fun to listen to! BG is full of great peices, even the pop songs. I especially dig Final Eyes which is very emotional and again , powerful.

Big Generator is great stuff.

tom

guilddigger · Post: # 34400Post **guilddigger** Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:54 am

ok, i'm gonna drop a bomb here!

the only song i like on bg is...

...drumroll...

'love will find a way'!



<hr><img src="http://home.att.net/~dahni725/vampire.gif" border=0>

stay awaken

thesage · Post: # 34579Post **thesage** Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am

If your read my post correctly, you will see that I wrote " like most yes albums" I did not write, "like ALL yes Albums"
I don'tthink there is a poor track on Relayer, or on Close to the Edge, but there are sections which I think could have been improved. I think GFTO is one of Yes's greatest albums, but I also think the title track is the weakest on the album, that doesn't mean I don't like it. People are entitled to have an opinion, and others should read more carefully!

Stoutman · Post: # 34647Post **Stoutman** Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:43 am

`Rhythm of Love and Love Will Find a Way are great tracks. PThey are two of the rockiest tracks Yes has ever created, but beyond these two songs, the rest is dreck. Unlike the aforementioned , The title track is an awkwwrd attempt to rock out. It falls flat. Shoot High, Aim, Low???? I know know of dogs that have better aim. `Almost like Love 'is an embarrasiing attempt to marry soul with their sound. And what can you say to a track like `Holy Lamb', but `Holy Mother of God!!!!'.
They spent more time partying than recording this album from what I have heard and read. The ill after effects show.
The album does bring back memories of when I was a sullen, surly kid back in high school I had a bad attitude then, I have a bad attitude now. Some things never change.

perpetualchanger · Post: # 34661Post **perpetualchanger** Wed Nov 20, 2002 10:08 pm

Shoot High, Aim Low is the best song on BG, IMHO. And I think I'm the only person alive who actually likes Almost Like Love.

PC, proud that she didn't knock the chez nous line as expected!

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fragilesi · Post: # 34721Post **fragilesi** Thu Nov 21, 2002 5:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And I think I'm the only person alive who actually likes Almost Like Love. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Not quite, it's one of my favourites from the album, I'm not a huge fan of Anderson's more staccato singing but I always thought that this one worked pretty well. I think some of the lyrics always struck a chord with me too.

Simon.

tribute1969 · Post: # 34739Post **tribute1969** Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:57 pm

Does anyone remember the "VIDEOS" of Rhythm Of Love & Love Will Find A Way?? Great "eye makeup" JON!....I know, Native American Indian reference but still TOO Twisted Sister for me considering the subject matter of song! Would have been ok on ABW&H Brother of Mine, In The Big Dream...<img src="http://afterhoursbbs.com/images/trib69-60-2.jpg" border=0><img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_bird.gif border=0 align=middle>

HeartOfTheSunrise · Post: # 34744Post **HeartOfTheSunrise** Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:20 pm

um, guys, girls, i love YES as you could most likely tell from the vast majority of my postings, but i reeeealy tried to like Big Gen

i can't

half the album is just bad

i never thought i would say that about a YES album
but i just feel maybe, and maybe somebody out there knows for a fact, maybe they had to get a record out on some kind of deadline to meet their commitment with a record company?

i like rythm of love and love with find a way and holy lamb and maybe final eyes

that's almost four out of eight songs

i tried , i really did, i was hoping there was something i was missing and learn to like later or whatever

i guess i feel about this platter the way many of you feel about Open Your Eyes

peace

Astral traveller · Post: # 34745Post **Astral traveller** Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:37 pm

(just a little more than) Half the album is great, yeah indeed:

good songs:

Final eyes
Shoot high
Big generator
I'm running
Holy lamb

Bad songs:

Rhythm of love
Love will find a way
Almost like love

well, perhaps Open Your Eyes is worse then this one (always have said the opposite...)

HeartOfTheSunrise · Post: # 34761Post **HeartOfTheSunrise** Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:33 am

and i think the man in the moon eats at chez nous

perpetualchanger · Post: # 34762Post **perpetualchanger** Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
HeartOfTheSunrise wrote:
but i just feel maybe, and maybe somebody out there knows for a fact, maybe they had to get a record out on some kind of deadline to meet their commitment with a record company?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I think that was indeed the case. I don't remember the details but it took them a LONG time to record it and they hopped from studio to studio. Entirely possible that the record company said "enough already" and gave them a deadline for release. It came out three years after 90125 and that's a long time to wait for a follow-up to a huge hit.

<hr>Check out my internet radio show, Solid Mental Grace!
www.thedividingline.com/smg.html
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psychopomp95 · Post: # 34805Post **psychopomp95** Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:11 am

Michele hit the nail on the head as to what I was gonna say (you do that a lot, girl! <img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>), so I'll just add that from listening to BG, the songs still sound as though they're in limbo. I like the album a lot, but I have to admit that several tracks sound like a work-in-progress, which makes sense considering they probably didn't reserve themselves enough time to finish (Tormato has a similar feel). Maybe the band should try re-arranging or re-recording some of it, but then most bands (understandably) don't like engaging in that sort of thing; it's done, let it be, I guess! I still think 5 1/2 out of 8 tunes are great by any standard, and the remaining 2 1/2 are passable enough!

<hr>But then, I'm just a Rabin fan!

childlikesouldreamer · Post: # 34842Post **childlikesouldreamer** Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:18 pm

Of course YES wanted hits after 90125, so ROL sounding 'like' OOALH is understandable. But I can't see how any YES fan could dislike it. It has a power and drive which YES have often lacked (eg., TORMATO), and I think this has been Rabin's best contribution to YES. For me, it's the the best reason for buying the album, and it deserves to be included in any YES compilation album. I see YES as a pop-rock band, and that gives them a certain sweetness and uniqueness of appeal. Noone else does music like this. But the eighties for YES, though it was based on chart success, did succeed in giving YES a harder sound which they needed. Rythm of Love typifies that for me. It gives me a real musical high for it's loud aggression. Rabin's passionate guitar chops, with Squire's aggressive bass coming in, and then then the synth joining, is the high point of the song. A wonderful groove!

After that, the album takes a dive. SHOOT HIGH starts off so well, but I think is lyrically weak. And why did Rabin have to dominate the additional vocals so in this period? His voice is not great. Was it an ego thing? If YES has a second vocalist it's Squire. I see him as the unsung hero of YES anyway, though that deserves a discussion topic in it's own right. And this song does drag on, as others mentioned.

HOLY LAMB is interesting for it's Vangelis-style keyboards. I would have like to have seen Vangelis joining this band at some point. I know he auditioned for RELAYER (though I'm delighted Moraz made it! - come back Patrick, as I do like to say in this forum!).

All-in-all it's not so bad. But listening to it for long makes me want to listen to other YES music instead. Perhaps the worst thing we can say about the album is that it took so long to complete - if it had got done sooner, they could have done another album perhaps. Only two albums from this line-up in the eighties!

<hr>'After all, your soul will still surrender.'

YesJo · Post: # 34869Post **YesJo** Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
childlikesouldreamer wrote:
Of course YES wanted hits after 90125, so ROL sounding 'like' OOALH is understandable. But I can't see how any YES fan could dislike it. It has a power and drive which YES have often lacked (eg., TORMATO), and I think this has been Rabin's best contribution to YES. For me, it's the the best reason for buying the album, and it deserves to be included in any YES compilation album. I see YES as a pop-rock band, and that gives them a certain sweetness and uniqueness of appeal. Noone else does music like this. But the eighties for YES, though it was based on chart success, did succeed in giving YES a harder sound which they needed. Rythm of Love typifies that for me. It gives me a real musical high for it's loud aggression. Rabin's passionate guitar chops, with Squire's aggressive bass coming in, and then then the synth joining, is the high point of the song. A wonderful groove!

After that, the album takes a dive. SHOOT HIGH starts off so well, but I think is lyrically weak. And why did Rabin have to dominate the additional vocals so in this period? His voice is not great. Was it an ego thing? If YES has a second vocalist it's Squire. I see him as the unsung hero of YES anyway, though that deserves a discussion topic in it's own right. And this song does drag on, as others mentioned.

HOLY LAMB is interesting for it's Vangelis-style keyboards. I would have like to have seen Vangelis joining this band at some point. I know he auditioned for RELAYER (though I'm delighted Moraz made it! - come back Patrick, as I do like to say in this forum!).

All-in-all it's not so bad. But listening to it for long makes me want to listen to other YES music instead. Perhaps the worst thing we can say about the album is that it took so long to complete - if it had got done sooner, they could have done another album perhaps. Only two albums from this line-up in the eighties!

<hr>'After all, your soul will still surrender.'
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You are so right about Rabin singing too much, I remember feeling like he was fighting Jon for control of vocals, I just couldn't take it, and it's the reason I don't listen to that stuff much at all, if ever. I like Holy Lamb, and Final Eyes, and I don't like Rabins voice.

psychopomp95 · Post: # 34917Post **psychopomp95** Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:11 pm

About Rabin 'singing too much': I really don't see that as a valid criticism. Never have, never will. When it gets right down to it, there's really only one song per YesWest album where Rabin could legitimately be considered to be doing 'lead' vocals ahead of Jon (Changes, Love Will Find A Way, Lift Me Up and Walls). And in any case, having two so-called 'lead' vocalists (and even three, since Chris sings some lead lines throughout the BG album) is just another way to create texture, in the same way as a multiple-tracked guitar or keyboard part might! Personally, I love hearing multiple vocalists!
Any criticisms that I DO have about BG center more around the fact that some of the songs are clumsily done, have embarassing production, or are too forcedly heavy (almost all of that goes solely for tracks 2 and 4, in my mind)! <img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>But then, I'm just a Rabin fan!

fragilesi · Post: # 34978Post **fragilesi** Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:42 pm

Yes, I think that Rabin is a better vocalist by some distance than Squire. Believe it or not though I prefer listening to Squire over Rabin.

BU just as I'd say give me Steve anytime out of the two of him and Trevor in terms of guitar work, it's Rabin every time for me on the vocal front.

Simon.

Chris2210 · Post: # 34987Post **Chris2210** Mon Nov 25, 2002 7:16 pm

I've always found Rabin's vocals competant and pleasant, even when singing lead. He's certainly technically better than Chris or Steve, and although I like Howe's vocal numbers I can certainly see it would be an acquired taste.

I listened to BG just this last weekend and I'm afraid my opinion hasn't changed much. There are some very nice, slick moments, but overall it's pretty weak. I can't really say any of the songs are indispenpensible from the band's catalogue for me personally.

psychopomp95 · Post: # 35020Post **psychopomp95** Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Chris2210 wrote:
I've always found Rabin's vocals competant and pleasant, even when singing lead.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That's my point! I mean, sure, I don't expect everyone to think he's a fantastic vocalist, or that he approaches Jon in terms of distinctiveness! But I don't get how some people DISLIKE his voice so strongly, because if anything he does have a rather inoffensive (and, dare I say it, PLAIN <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) voice! I still say he sings with a lot of power and control, as compared to Chris, who, although a good backing vocalist, doesn't vary the level of intensity in his voice very much (which is what makes a good backing singer, actually; steady and good pitch).

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I listened to BG just this last weekend and I'm afraid my opinion hasn't changed much. There are some very nice, slick moments, but overall it's pretty weak. I can't really say any of the songs are indispenpensible from the band's catalogue for me personally.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That's fair enough. I'm willing to wager the reason I like it more than most is simply cuz it's the Yes that I remember from farthest back... I was only 3 1/2 when it came out, and I've been hearing it (and liking it! <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>) ever since then! And that said, I wouldn't use it as an introduction to Yes, or even YesWest (Talk or 90125 for that job) because several of the tracks are quite weak and cheesy-sounding.

I guess I've got no place to comment on people who like 'Classic Yes' for nostalgia reasons, because I like YesWest for a lot of the same reasons too! I'm still trying to figure out how that applies to my dad, though... <img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> He got into Yes back when The Yes Album came out, but like me, he actually prefers YesWest!

<hr>But then, I'm just a Rabin fan!

Fishes · Post: # 50880Post **Fishes** Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:08 am

it's great except for "I'm Running"....horrible song....just horrible

psychopomp95 · Post: # 50888Post **psychopomp95** Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:07 pm

And that tune is one that seems to polarize opinion, too... I think it's great! And a lot of people say it's the best one off of BG (I'd say SHAL gets that title though), whereas, like you Fishes, a good number of people can't stand it!

Funny thing no one mentions about that song, which I realized not so long ago myself: it's rather derivative of "Changes"! It has the same clean, even D minor picking during the verses, has a 'steadily building dynamic' with a marimba playing a big part in that... interesting, no? <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

psychopomp95 · Post: # 51016Post **psychopomp95** Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:21 am

ARGGH, I just typed up a fairly long, in-depth post, and Murphy's Law decided to apply and deleted the ****ing thing!!! <img src=pix/icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

ANYWAYS, I'll try remember how I did this...

I listened to Big Generator last night, and I have a theory about the title track. We all agree that it's very cheesy and bombastic, complete with all of those production touches out of the 80's (horn shots, whammy bar-wanking solos, super "heavy" riffs), but whereas most cheesy Yes songs have only gotten that way over time, the band MUST'VE known how ridiculous it was while they were working on it! Yet they continued... why?
Well, we know that Atlantic wanted another 'Owner', and we can probably presume that, whatever ELSE the band was disagreeing about at the time, they could agree that they didn't like being directed by record execs. So, my theory is, they did this track as a 'piss-off' at Atlantic (which may also explain them being dumped after this album <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), basically saying "you want another 'Owner'?? You're gonna get it!!" And they went and gave them THIS monstrosity! <img src=pix/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Not just the music, but Jon's lyrics are almost a send-up of his own style (he must've known that line about "psychedelic so we could see" was pretty funny, since it poked fun at his hippy image), and the chrous lines themself seem to make fun of the 'cheesy rock chorus' ("moving to the left, moving to the right", etc). "Big Generator" itself? Maybe the band is referring to themselves, and the perception they seemed to be receiving from others of being a corporate 'hit generator'!

So, if my assumption is right, I have to nominate the song as one of the most hilarious, sly sendups of "pop music" I've heard... I've always had a chuckle when I hear this song, because I get this picture of Rabin not being able to keep a straight face while playing that blitzkreig solo... <img src=pix/jestera.gif border=0 align=middle> And I think he knew how ridiculous it was too!