Prog, light and dark

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yesireebob
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Prog, light and dark

Post: # 4035Post yesireebob
Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:54 pm

It seems to me that the music I love the most is one of two types. One the one hand, there is what I would call light, or perharps bright, prog. (Don't like the "lite" conotation.) Bands like Yes, Flower Kings, Spock's Beard. Uplifting and for the most part upbeat, even when dealing with a dark subject. Transcendant. Think of the frequent references to the sun in Yes music. On the other hand, there is the dark music, like Pink Floyd and Porcupine Tree. Psychedelic, moody, reflective, often sad. Achingly sad. But as Steven Wilson has said, some of the most beautiful music is very sad. Sometimes I am hard pressed to say which moves me more, the light or the dark. Although Yes ultimately won out over Pink Floyd for me, Dark Side of the Moon is one of my favorite albums of all time. I can't think of another album that is more relevant or eloquent in capturing the themes of the late 20th century -- existentialism, automation, alienation, madness, war, greed. And I just can't get enough of Porcupine Tree and related side-projects.
So, I bask in the sun yet am equally drawn to the moon.
What about you?

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psychopomp95
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Post: # 67463Post psychopomp95
Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:22 pm

It's all about balance, is what I say. Listen to EVERYTHING - light, dark, soft, heavy, funny, serious, joyful, melancholy... Music is a reflection of humanity! There is NO need to try to determine what kind of music you like 'better'.

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Post: # 67471Post Roan's Lady
Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:30 am

I agree with psychopomp - music is a reflection of how we live - thus, if we are lovers of music (and of course, we all are here!) what we listen to likely presents us with many of the themes of our lives, which makes ALL of it valuable and relevant. I am also moved by the uplifting as well as the melancholy in music, as you are, Linda. Actually, what I like about certain Yes songs (Gates and Ritual spring to mind first) is the movement from the dark/chaotic to the light/calm. As is the balance in our lives, and I think music is brilliant when it can capture that. All music has the power to do so much for us - that's what makes it so wonderful!
Good, thought-provoking topic, Linda! <img src=pix/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Astral traveller
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Post: # 67479Post Astral traveller
Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:33 am

<font color=black>Thats what I think, Progrock is emotion. Every emotion. Thats the most important thing. the opposites of dark/light, soft/hard, fast/slow, its all there, sometimes within one song. </font id=black>

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Post: # 67482Post Yogi_Bear
Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:45 am

totally agreed man!
Prog rock is an invitation to the world of emotional colors and sounds man.Light is the cheerfull insanity and daydream tripps, Dark is the introspective insights of the sad colors that fill our ears and our eyes.


<hr>Be like the Trees that bend when the wind blows
Be like the stone in the river...
The universe and you are one

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tribute1969
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Post: # 67808Post tribute1969
Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:04 am

<b><font face=Tahoma><font color=red>YES YES
Tastes Great, Less Filling....

I TOO, am a "CONTRAST" man....I "enjoy" opposites in style, sight, taste, smell and sound.....

It would not be odd to hear Led Zep, YES, Pink Floyd, The Doors, Black Oak Arkansas, Sly and The Family Stone, Johnny Winter, CSN&Y, Jimi, Allman Bros and/or Harry Chapin music coming from my house in no particular order.......
These days you might hear PT, DT, YES, SFA, String Cheese Incident, Britney Spears-kidding, Genesis, Jimi, Rush, ALL of the above too...Just NOT enough time.....

I can put Donovan and Jimi on the same cd and "enjoy" both..
I can drink Pale Ale or Dark Ale..
Just like all the contrasting music, BOTH produce the desired result...

I Get Up , I Get Down.....

I get OFF at 8pm tonight....</font id=red></font id=Tahoma></b>

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tardistraveler
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Post: # 68103Post tardistraveler
Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 am

I am also into both styles, and always have been. Although my nature tends to look for the positive, and I enjoy the uplifting nature of a band like Yes, I also see the beauty in a Pink Floyd, or Porcupine Tree, and enjoy the raw emotion of Hendrix or Led Zep.

It's interesting to me to watch people age that I once listened to music with, and see their tastes mellow. My ex, who once loved Yes, Genesis, Hendrix, Johnny Winter, etc., now listens to Celine Dion and lots of "new age" stuff. He says he finds the harder sounds "offensive" now. Another old friend turned to country - shudder. I'm still listening to the stuff I used to, as well as expanding to encompass new bands as I discover them. Good music stands the test of time.

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Post: # 68229Post fragilesi
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:37 pm

Would you believe that I view <i>Turn of the Century</i> as "dark" prog using this definition? I sometimes skip it if I'm feeling "delicate" because it never fails to move me to sadness.

Don't get me wrong, it's possibly the most beautiful piece of music they have ever written but the story touches me in ways that virtually no other record does.

Simon.

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Post: # 68261Post Roan's Lady
Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:49 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>fragilesi wrote:</b>
Would you believe that I view <i>Turn of the Century</i> as "dark" prog using this definition? I sometimes skip it if I'm feeling "delicate" because it never fails to move me to sadness.

Don't get me wrong, it's possibly the most beautiful piece of music they have ever written but the story touches me in ways that virtually no other record does.

Simon.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Mmm, I would have to agree with you there, Simon! There, too - and there.

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Post: # 68287Post Independently Whole
Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>fragilesi wrote:</b>
Would you believe that I view <i>Turn of the Century</i> as "dark" prog using this definition? I sometimes skip it if I'm feeling "delicate" because it never fails to move me to sadness.

Don't get me wrong, it's possibly the most beautiful piece of music they have ever written but the story touches me in ways that virtually no other record does.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

To me, the term "dark" conveys a hint of sinister. TOTC does not fit this description, but it is undoubtedly loaded with sadness. And then such an eruption of joyous relief! A question: does the closing acoustic guitar part sound entirely happy to you, or is it happiness tinged with enduring sorrow?

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Post: # 68292Post PapaJimH
Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:38 pm

Some seem to allude to the fact that depending on the mood, light or darkm music is good. Sometimes the music can drive the mood too. There are certain CD's that when I put them on, always brighten my mood. Spock's Beard does that, as does Jughead (with Ty Tabor). On the other hand, Pain of salvation sucks me into the dark abyss sometimes.

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Post: # 68293Post PapaJimH
Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:42 pm

Some seem to allude to the fact that depending on the mood, light or dark music is good. Sometimes the music can drive the mood too. There are certain CD's that when I put them on, always brighten my mood. Spock's Beard does that, as does Jughead (with Ty Tabor). On the other hand, Pain of salvation sucks me into the dark abyss sometimes.

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fragilesi
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Post: # 68302Post fragilesi
Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>Independently Whole wrote:</b>
To me, the term "dark" conveys a hint of sinister. TOTC does not fit this description, but it is undoubtedly loaded with sadness. And then such an eruption of joyous relief! A question: does the closing acoustic guitar part sound entirely happy to you, or is it happiness tinged with enduring sorrow?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yes, I can see what you mean about Dark but that final part is to me is very bittersweet and laced with the sorrow of what's lost . ..

Simon.

yesireebob
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Post: # 68408Post yesireebob
Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:35 pm

I hear TOTC as incredibly sad, but somehow transcendant. Not dark. Dark can indeed suck you into the abyss if you are already hovering on the edge. I remember during one very bleak period of my life I listened to the Wall a lot, and to this day, that album tends to bring me down. Nobody Home, Comfortably Numb. They just ache. Or Porcupine Tree, Collapse the Light into Earth:

I won't heal given time
I won't try to change your mind
I won't feel better in the cold light of day
but I wouldn't stop you if you wanted to stay.
Collapse the light into Earth

A very plaintive song, set to beautiful piano and a lovely string arrangement. From In Abstentia, a concept album about the mind of a serial killer. Much of their material deals with loss, alienation, and absurdity, as does Floyd. By contrast, even in a sorrowful context, as in TOTC, Yes finds that release, that transcendance. "Like leaves we touch." In the end, it is actually quite postive despite the almost palpable sorrow.

Yes is my favorite band, always has been, always will be. But Porcupine Tree is number two or three with me, I have all their CDs and I listen to them often.

So, is "the sun eclipsed by the moon?" Sometimes.

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Post: # 68421Post fragilesi
Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:47 pm

Interesting viewpoints on TOTC, I think that the killer lines for me are at the end now . . . and this really is purely down to individual interpretation. Maybe all these years I've missed the point but . . .

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Like leaves we touch, we see
We will know the story
As Autumn calls we'll both remember
All those many years ago <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Has always brought to mind the sculptor walking alone on an Autmumn day remembering the <i>dream</i> or <i>memory</i>of bringing the stone to life. I never considered that he'd actually done it because so much was written in the past tense after "she dies".

This is why I find it so powerful and sad. Maybe I'm wrong but this could simply be the most beautiful and powerful piece of music Yes ever produced.

Simon.

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Post: # 68428Post N2yes
Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>fragilesi wrote:</b>
Maybe I'm wrong but this could simply be the most beautiful and powerful piece of music Yes ever produced.

Simon.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
<font color=red><font face='Papyrus'>No, that would be either "To Be Over" or "Awaken". Let's get it right, Simon.</font id=red></font id='Papyrus'><img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_yes2.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr>"Master of images-Songs cast a light on you"

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Post: # 68430Post jackalz
Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:28 pm

When I think of DARK prog, I think Oingo Boingo and Nine Inch Nails. Both go beyond the edge of insanity and cover it musically with interesting twists and dark colors. My best friend loves NIN, otherwise I would never have given it a second thought. But now I can say that it is prog, and not just techno. I think the same could be said of rap, actually. Rap is evolving and bringing new musicality to it, if you open your mind to it (but it takes quite a few listens to get past the baseness of it).

<hr>Next to your deeper fears, we stand surrounded by a million years. Go closer hold the land...

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Post: # 68431Post fragilesi
Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>N2yes wrote:</b>
<font color=red><font face='Papyrus'>No, that would be either "To Be Over" or "Awaken". Let's get it right, Simon.</font id=red></font id='Papyrus'><img src=pix/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=pix/icon_yes_yes2.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr>"Master of images-Songs cast a light on you"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I see we're still lettin the riff-raff on this board then<img src=pix/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Simon.

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Chris2210
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Post: # 68563Post Chris2210
Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<b>fragilesi wrote:</b>
Interesting viewpoints on TOTC, I think that the killer lines for me are at the end now . . . and this really is purely down to individual interpretation. Maybe all these years I've missed the point but . . .

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Like leaves we touch, we see
We will know the story
As Autumn calls we'll both remember
All those many years ago <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Has always brought to mind the sculptor walking alone on an Autmumn day remembering the <i>dream</i> or <i>memory</i>of bringing the stone to life. I never considered that he'd actually done it because so much was written in the past tense after "she dies".

This is why I find it so powerful and sad. Maybe I'm wrong but this could simply be the most beautiful and powerful piece of music Yes ever produced.

Simon.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></font id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yes it has a 'perfection' about it few other songs can match. But I actually think the lovers are together at the end of the song (As Autumn calls, we'll <i>both</i> remember all those many years ago). I've always viewed this as their <b> Death and Transfiguration</b> - of course there is tragedy and sadness here but the instrumental climax of the song is sublime-ecstactic and there is a sense of realisation of what is yearned and searched for. Perhaps in the literal sense the sculptor dies and is reunited (not a superficially cheerful thought), or as I prefer to think, it's a genuine redemption/transcendance through 'art' or whatever you'd like to call it in a more metaphysical sense.

Either way I find it both achingly beautiful and tremendously uplifting. I really do think this song is a great work of art in itself.

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psychopomp95
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Post: # 68570Post psychopomp95
Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:14 am

As with much Yes stuff, I think the story of TOTC, and its' conclusion, is open to intepretation! Maybe the sculptor really does re-create his lover, or maybe the sculpture "coming back to life" is really only meant to be figurative... either way, though, I'm in agreement with Simon that I sometimes have to skip this song because of the impact. Not necessarily because it's the 'strongest' impact, but just because it's probably the only Yes song that invokes sadness so overtly, at least as far as I can think ("Soon", for whatever reason, doesn't hit me QUITE so hard)! However, even when I do listen to it, it's been a very long time since I've felt the emotional power of this song.

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Post: # 68577Post fragilesi
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:09 am

Absolutely guys, I think that you can definitely take it either way and I wish I had Chris's interpretation but I think I've lived with mine too long to get my own transfiguration!

Fantastic song though. Sublime is a good word.

Simon.

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